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Thread: Dusty on Juan Francisco

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    How do you teach that? The Reds tried with Obie forcing every minor leaguer to take the first pitch. There were many players, Votto, who hated that mandate. Krivsky came in and did away with taking the first pitch. Can you do this to just Francisco? It would seem like a pretty good idea to take until he gets a strike to help him learn the zone. If he can accept his numbers being lower while he learns a better zone would be good thing.

    But at the same time you have to wonder if wanting Francisco to be a little less aggressive at the plate would take away from his power. Would it be worth it then?
    I don't know how you teach it; I'm not a baseball coach.

    I'm just saying that "aggressiveness" is hardly a rare trait among young baseball players and being overly fine with their plate discipline is not exactly a common problem. I don't understand what Dusty's point is from an evaluation perspective.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    According to Dusty, passivity leads to allowing that one pitch you usually get in an at-bat go by, hoping to find another. He wants a team that goes deep in counts, walks a bit, but stays aggressive at the plate.

    How he gets all three of those things, I have no clue.

    You'd think a guy that saw Barry Bonds absolutely tear the league a new one would realize how valuable patience is. Then again, I can appreciate the idea of wailing on that one pitch, too, as Bonds did.

    Okay, now I get it. All young players need to hit like Barry Bonds.

    Proceed.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  4. #18
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    According to Dusty, passivity leads to allowing that one pitch you usually get in an at-bat go by, hoping to find another. He wants a team that goes deep in counts, walks a bit, but stays aggressive at the plate.

    How he gets all three of those things, I have no clue.
    You nailed it... Dusty gives lip service to being patient. And given the rare player who can be patient and also aggressive on hammering his pitch (Bonds), I have no doubt that Dusty would correctly identify his patience as one of his key attributes. But when patience and aggressiveness come into conflict (99% of ballplayers), Dusty is always going to err on the side of telling the player to be aggressive.

    In short, Dusty thinks walks are important but thinks being aggressive is more important - and since it is very difficult to do both well, most guys who listen to him are going to end up swinging away.

  5. #19
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    If performance during winter ball has great meaning then the significance of spring training must be off the charts?
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #20
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't know how you teach it; I'm not a baseball coach.

    "I'm just saying that "aggressiveness" is hardly a rare trait among young baseball players and being overly fine with their plate discipline is not exactly a common problem. I don't understand what Dusty's point is from an evaluation perspective."
    I don't know how Dusty could more effectively articulate his views on aggression to players but he did have this to say about music in his book on hitting:

    Quote Originally Posted by excerpt from "You Can Teach Hitting";
    Many advanced hitters like to listen to music to help them relax and to get some rhythm in their hitting. The music can be provided by a public address system or by a portable stereo. Some players like rhythm and blues, some jazz, rock and roll, or country/western. Dusty preferred rhythm and blues or jazz, because he felt that it got him into a flow like dancing."
    Maybe Francisco just listens to the wrong music?
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #21
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    JF projects as a big time player. If he can get his OBP into the .320 range he can be a big time player.
    What big time player had a .320 OBP? Heck, even Ryan Braun had a .335 OBP last year...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  8. #22
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Here's a couple pictures of Francisco from the Cincinnati Enquirer...


    Given a chance to start, third baseman Juan Francisco was one for three, drove in a run and scored a run.


    Third baseman Juan Francisco.
    Wily Mo Pena is that you?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  9. #23
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    If performance during winter ball has great meaning then the significance of spring training must be off the charts?
    Almost as important as the Mexican Pacific League...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #24
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't understand what Dusty's point is from an evaluation perspective.
    Remember this is Dusty. Expecting him to respond to a question is one thing. Expecting him to have a point is a bit much.

  11. #25
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Wily Mo Pena is that you?
    This guy is a better player than WMP.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  12. #26
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    This guy is a better player than WMP.
    Well Juan did strike out a little less against A ball arms than Wily mo did against major leaguers at a similar age. Juan can hang his hat on that I guess.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #27
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Well Juan did strike out a little less against A ball arms than Wily mo did against major leaguers at a similar age. Juan can hang his hat on that I guess.
    Better baseball athlete, better barrel skills. The better development path will favor Francisco, too.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  14. #28
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Better baseball athlete, better barrel skills. The better development path will favor Francisco, too.
    He's got power and a strong arm but likely will end up at first base making his arm strength a bit of a waste.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #29
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    THERE HAS BEEN talk about moving 21-year-old prospect Juan Francisco from third base to outfield or first base. After watching him for little more than a week, former major-league third baseman David Bell, manager of the Reds Class AA Hickory team, says he should stay right where he is. “He has really good actions at third base, has the arm strength to play there and has good hands,” said Bell. “Good hands comes from good footwork and he has that, too. As footwork improves, your hands get softer.” Faulty footwork is what plagues current third baseman Edwin Encarnacion.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs...incinnatireds/
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty on Juan Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    THERE HAS BEEN talk about moving 21-year-old prospect Juan Francisco from third base to outfield or first base. After watching him for little more than a week, former major-league third baseman David Bell, manager of the Reds Class AA Hickory team, says he should stay right where he is. “He has really good actions at third base, has the arm strength to play there and has good hands,” said Bell. “Good hands comes from good footwork and he has that, too. As footwork improves, your hands get softer.” Faulty footwork is what plagues current third baseman Edwin Encarnacion.

    http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs...incinnatireds/
    AA Hickory? Really?


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