But he says don't worry. They're a good 24th.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...l-rankings-24/
But he says don't worry. They're a good 24th.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...l-rankings-24/
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Seriously, the Mariners above the Reds?
I have been saying this for years now.Originally Posted by Dave Cameron
The question, though, is what direction do they want to go in? On their face, this team isn't good enough to contend in 2009, but they've got significant assets tied to Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, and Francisco Cordero, who are just better fits for a contender than a rebuilder. But if they trade those guys, then there isn't enough good talent around the young core to avoid a lot of losses. It's something of a dilemma that Jocketty and company will have to figure out.
It is the Catch 22 that Reds find themselves in. Perhaps this year, some of this will clear itself up. If in fact Bailey and Owings are making the progress we hope - and that does remain to be seen, then one of the other two starters will be expendable. I can support moving one of them for other needed pieces. In the past, put very simply, it has felt folks wanted them moved simply for the sake of getting them off the books and getting something hopefully of value when we had nothing to replace them with. I think that situation may well change, as I said. That's a nice place to be in. The Cordero debate will continue I'm sure, but if the staff does what it looks like it can, perhaps that will end up not being solely a luxury, but fitting the need for a solid closer (salary notwithstanding). I just don't think the Cordero question will go away. It's the nature of the beast, as they say.
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I'm waiting to hear his argument before passing judgment. He's an Ms fan but he also has a reputation for being fair and impartial and admitting his bias when he's not.
My guess is that the new FO, the bevy of upcoming draft picks this summer and the large amount of resources the Ms have (i.e. money to utilize, international scouting/player development, an already good player development system in shape for the new guard) are a big factor in his view of the Ms going forward. In short, the Ms aren't rebuilding completely from nothing-they've got alot of plusses already in place. Also, the Ms are in a division that may be weaker for the next year or two.
Last edited by jojo; 03-12-2009 at 01:52 PM.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
You could save yourself a lot of time by sticking to fangraphs, eh?I think he summed up three months worth of Redszone archives with this:
Fangraphs and Cameron are not unbiased. Dinging Jocketty for butting heads with Luhnow is clear evidence of that. These boys like their "analytics." An honest evaluation of their assessments should be made next year and in the years beyond. Right now, the rankings carry very little value. Just another fanboy list for now.
Unimpressed. It makes no sense to downgrade a team's system based on how it meshes with the major league club, as he does regarding Alonso/Votto. Talent is talent.I wonder how his take on the Reds minor league system will play amongst regulars of Minor League Talk.
Not really. The author's point was that the Reds seem to be at a crossroads without an obvious course to follow. It's legitimate to wonder what Jocketty is planning to do IMHO-we've spent alot of time doing just that on Redszone.
I think his grade was colored by his argument that their system's one compelling answer is an answer without a question.
Last edited by jojo; 03-12-2009 at 02:00 PM.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
The future of no organization is guaranteed, nor especially well understood.Not really. The author's point was that the Reds seem to be at a crossroads without an obvious course to follow. It's legitimate to wonder what Jocketty is planning to do IMHO-we've spent alot of time doing just that on Redszone.
The lazy may not know that the Reds have a pretty talented young core and have announced a shift towards building speed and defense into their roster. Likewise, the lazy may not know the club has shifted gears dramatically in Latin America, going from non-players to spending as much as anyone there last year. Just to name the most obvious harbingers of the future in Cincinnati.
So, Cameron limits his evaluation pretty much to a judgment about how much the FO relies on analytics. And what does he really know about that? Just very little there, so far as I can see.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Or they may think that the young core isn't large enough and that it doesn't matter what gets announced when the realization of the plan can be summed up in two words: Willy Taveras.
Yep, the club's been on course for years, across five different GMs in fact. It's the "What are we doing today?" plan.Originally Posted by lollipopcurve
Last edited by M2; 03-13-2009 at 09:19 AM.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
The article seems to downgrade the Reds because of Jocketty and his opposition to fully embrace the analytical aspect of baseball.
I guess what confuses me is he did this in St. Louis. He built a winner and a team who has been relevant for almost every year over the past decade. To me this seems more like sour grapes towards Jocketty and his ways.He’ll do a pretty good job of putting together a roster, but he’s not going to create sustainable long term advantages that can make up for their mid-market payroll size.
I give him a pass on the minor league aspect of things. What hurts the Reds is that they don't have much top end talent. And as he mentions Alonso is a 1b only blocked by the teams best player. In order to get a true judge of talent you almost need to focus on minor league baseball only.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
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