Fan Graph's baseball has Reds as 24th best organization

[REDREAD]

IMO, the larger problem is the constant turnover hasn't led to any substantive change.

An even larger problem is that the Allen/Lindner leadership really didn't want change. They just wanted a big enough snow job to take advantage of fan loyalty and get them to run to the park.

The jury is still out on Cast. His Latin/draft spending was pretty impressive, but even Allen had one year where he was free and loose with player development spending. Then when Howington flamed out, the money dried up.

If ownership really doesn't want to win, but would rather be conservative and collect revenue sharing, the most brilliant baseball minds in the world aren't going to be able to turn the franchise around.

[Ron Madden]

Then what would you have suggest they do? Realistically speaking. They weren't going to sign CC, Burnett, Manny, or Texiera. How do you take the team right now, and turn them into a contender.

Not over spending on below average players with upsides of being average players might be a fine place to start.

Then we might be able to pay some productive players.

[Ron Madden]

Thats the feeling I get around here. It kind of sucks the life about talking about Reds baseball. To me it seems that all the epic fail and T-virus talk leads me to believe people would rather see the Reds lose just to say "I told you so".

I'm 55 years old, been a Reds Fan all my life through good times and bad, I'll go to my grave being a Fan of the Cincinnati Reds.

I've never come across a member of RedsZone that would put his/her ego ahead of the success of the Cincinnati Reds.

[WMR]

I'm sorry but what exactly have the Reds done the past decade or so that justifies Reds fans looking down their noses at the Marlins? God forbid the Reds FO ever makes the decision to just use the cheap young unproven player instead of flushing millions in small chunks at all the stop gaps over the past few years.

It's been a constant attempt to try and "win now" (which by Reds standards means attempt to get to .500) while they rebuild for the past 3 GM's. I've said it for years and its still true....you can't do both. At some point you ave to take your lumps, trade some veteran pieces and swear off the stop gaps. Go out and take whatever the kids can give you, stockpile the farm and look forward to better days.

Instead the reds do half measures and people try and justify it by saying attendance would suffer if they were too bad of a team. I couldn't disagree more. Put some money into a good PR campaign, be upfront and tell them we are rebuilding. Do they really think we fans are so dumb as to care what number below .500 they end up at every year? If there is true hope for the future it doesn't matter. Its tough to have true hope for the future with Willy T being the latest in a long line of similar moves.

A team like the Marlins? Please. We should be so lucky.

What I would give if our FO demonstrated half the intelligence of the Marlins!

[camisadelgolf]

I'm sorry but what exactly have the Reds done the past decade or so that justifies Reds fans looking down their noses at the Marlins? God forbid the Reds FO ever makes the decision to just use the cheap young unproven player instead of flushing millions in small chunks at all the stop gaps over the past few years.

It's been a constant attempt to try and "win now" (which by Reds standards means attempt to get to .500) while they rebuild for the past 3 GM's. I've said it for years and its still true....you can't do both. At some point you ave to take your lumps, trade some veteran pieces and swear off the stop gaps. Go out and take whatever the kids can give you, stockpile the farm and look forward to better days.

Instead the reds do half measures and people try and justify it by saying attendance would suffer if they were too bad of a team. I couldn't disagree more. Put some money into a good PR campaign, be upfront and tell them we are rebuilding. Do they really think we fans are so dumb as to care what number below .500 they end up at every year? If there is true hope for the future it doesn't matter. Its tough to have true hope for the future with Willy T being the latest in a long line of similar moves.

A team like the Marlins? Please. We should be so lucky.

I'm sorry to nitpick, especially since I mostly agree with you, but I don't think Willy Taveras is a good example of the typical stopgap the Reds have been bringing in over the years. He's only 27 years old, and the Reds needed someone because they have almost no center field depth in the upper minors. Taveras is just keeping the seat warm for when Stubbs is ready imo.

As far as I can tell, the Reds have been building for next decade, and I think they put themselves in a good position for 2010 and beyond. People argue that the Reds are trying to "win now", but I see it as nothing more than a marketing ploy. Everything I see (aside, possibly, from the Ramon Hernandez trade) suggests to me that the Reds are building for the future.

[Marc D]

I'm sorry to nitpick, especially since I mostly agree with you, but I don't think Willy Taveras is a good example of the typical stopgap the Reds have been bringing in over the years. He's only 27 years old, and the Reds needed someone because they have almost no center field depth in the upper minors. Taveras is just keeping the seat warm for when Stubbs is ready imo.

As far as I can tell, the Reds have been building for next decade, and I think they put themselves in a good position for 2010 and beyond. People argue that the Reds are trying to "win now", but I see it as nothing more than a marketing ploy. Everything I see (aside, possibly, from the Ramon Hernandez trade) suggests to me that the Reds are building for the future.

I can see where you are coming from but I don't want it to turn into yet another discussion of the WT signing.

I hope this FO really is just using guys like him to keep seats warm but untill its definite it just fits the old pattern of whizzing down our backs and telling us its raining. My hope for this time around is that the minors are sending enough talent in enough numbers that these kind of guys really are seen as temporary by the FO and not seen as the answer.

Thats the positive side of me. Then the other side sees Dusty smiling at me and how much he thinks of guys like WT, CP etc and I'm not so optimistic anymore.

I'll say it a million times, I expect the worst from the Reds, hope for the best and will eagerly have a second helping of humble pie if they should ever be so kind as to prove me wrong. Untill then, if it walks like a duck for over a decade.....

[westofyou]

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change
Courage to change the things I can
And the wisdom to know the difference

[redsmetz]

I can see where you are coming from but I don't want it to turn into yet another discussion of the WT signing.

I hope this FO really is just using guys like him to keep seats warm but untill its definite it just fits the old pattern of whizzing down our backs and telling us its raining. My hope for this time around is that the minors are sending enough talent in enough numbers that these kind of guys really are seen as temporary by the FO and not seen as the answer.

Thats the positive side of me. Then the other side sees Dusty smiling at me and how much he thinks of guys like WT, CP etc and I'm not so optimistic anymore.

I'll say it a million times, I expect the worst from the Reds, hope for the best and will eagerly have a second helping of humble pie if they should ever be so kind as to prove me wrong. Untill then, if it walks like a duck for over a decade.....

Perhaps WOY's prayer says it so much better, but why do folks on RZ torture themselves so? The fact that someone like WT is here on only a two year deal doesn't say he's just a place holder? The minors are teeming with youngsters ready to move up in the couple to few years. Not that we might not add some players from elsewhere, but I see this year as so much different than previous. I know this season may well be tough, but I think the future is bright.

[Marc D]

The fact that someone like WT is here on only a two year deal doesn't say he's just a place holder?

Thats the whole point of my frustration. Up until now a 2 year contract has meant he was a place holder for the next place holder. He just replaced Patterson.

I agree there is a lot more talent in the minors than there ever has been and that hopefully soon it should be here to replace guys like Tavaras.

Then I remember this is the Reds we are talking about and I wish I could get the serenity part of WOY's post down better because their ineptitude still makes my blood boil but there is absolutely nothing any of us can do about it except vent at places like RZ.

[cincrazy]

A bit off topic, but in regards to Castellini, I really like the man. I just returned from Florida where I caught a few Reds games. The first game I watched, our seats were by the press box door behind home plate. I saw Castellini walking towards us preparing to go through the door, and I extended my hand and asked him how he was doing, and I figured that would be that, he'd be on his way. But he took the time to stop and talk to me, my younger brother, and my father. Asked us where we were from, how the trip to Florida was, how the experience was going, and so on and so forth.

I know it's a small gesture, but to me, it meant a lot. I will forever remember being at GABPs open house, and approaching Carl Lindner, only to have his posse intervene. Because you know, 17 year old kids pose a major threat and all.

Cast isn't perfect. He has his warts. But the man CARES. About the team. About its history. About its fans. I truly, completely believe that. Even more so after talking to him in person for five minutes.

[bucksfan2]

A bit off topic, but in regards to Castellini, I really like the man. I just returned from Florida where I caught a few Reds games. The first game I watched, our seats were by the press box door behind home plate. I saw Castellini walking towards us preparing to go through the door, and I extended my hand and asked him how he was doing, and I figured that would be that, he'd be on his way. But he took the time to stop and talk to me, my younger brother, and my father. Asked us where we were from, how the trip to Florida was, how the experience was going, and so on and so forth.

I know it's a small gesture, but to me, it meant a lot. I will forever remember being at GABPs open house, and approaching Carl Lindner, only to have his posse intervene. Because you know, 17 year old kids pose a major threat and all.

Cast isn't perfect. He has his warts. But the man CARES. About the team. About its history. About its fans. I truly, completely believe that. Even more so after talking to him in person for five minutes.

The man knows how to treat people. I did Give Back Cincinnati for the Reds Community Fund one year. Castellini was down at spring training but had a video message waiting for the crew. He had a breakfast at club 4192, LS Tshirt, yard work gloves, and a boxed lunch. He didn't have to provide all that but he did. He seems to understand the fan and knows how to take care of the fan. Its a good change since Lindner.