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Thread: University of Kentucky Basketball

  1. #76
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    This is semi-off topic, but I am seriously thinking about ordering some of Pitino's leadership books. I did some research for a class I am taking and one of the pieces from the book talks about how he aimed to restore Kentucky's integrity after Eddie Sutton left.

    Has anybody read Success is a Choice or Lead to Succeed? I'd love to hear some feedback.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    You're exactly right. The thing that stands out is that times changes and coaches must do the same. Rupp didn't have to be a media darling because, well, he won. That, and the culture was different then. Behaviors and attitudes that were acceptable then are not now. Expectations were different, for the team AND the coach.

    Pitino, as you pointed out, did things that engaged the fans. He took the strong fan support and relished the role, making fans feel as if he were one of them. But where Pitino expressed a love for basketball and a desire to connect with people that share that love, Billy seems to view those same fans as a distraction from coaching. It's like a business owner saying, "I'd love what I do if it weren't for the lousy customers."
    To me that is like a teenager saying to his parents, "You don't understand me" or "You don't understand my generation".

    My point is, I don't really care how Gillispie acts with the media, and if the team was winning, I doubt very many would have cared. Do I think he should do a better job? Yes. Would I fire him because of how he talked to Jeanine Edwards? Of course not.

    Adolph Rupp was able to get a free pass because he won. If you want to look at a modern day example, take Jim Calhoun. He isn't exactly a media darling, but he wins.

    I am curious though if Gillispie does have some escape outside of basketball. I know I had read where somebody on here said that they saw him at Merrick Inn (don't know the spelling). It would be interesting to see if he does interact with fans at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    This is semi-off topic, but I am seriously thinking about ordering some of Pitino's leadership books. I did some research for a class I am taking and one of the pieces from the book talks about how he aimed to restore Kentucky's integrity after Eddie Sutton left.

    Has anybody read Success is a Choice or Lead to Succeed? I'd love to hear some feedback.
    I am a Louisville fan that was not happy about the hiring of Pitino at the time.
    I decided to suck it up and read Success is a Choice. I found it to be quite inspiring. It's mostly the same stuff you get from any motivational book, but tells it from a basketball point of view that I found easy to relate.
    I became a Pitino fan after reading it and haven't looked back.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster View Post
    I don't agree with this for several reasons. Florida football, Alabama football, NC basketball.

    All three University's had negative press about the firings, and negative press about their crazy fan base. It worked out well for them. It's also harder to turn around a football team than a basketball team on a short term bases. Both football teams turned it around in just 2 seasons...so it did not hurt recruiting, it fact it helped...a lot!

    No player would quit the team or a recruit, until they hired a new coach. Kentucky would have to get a "big name." No "up-and-comer."
    Problem:

    Mike Shula was at Alabama for 4 years.
    Ron Zook was at Florida for 3 years.
    Matt Doherty was at UNC for 4 years.

    The problem with Gillispie leaving is that there is no big name who can come in and immediately keep everything intact and fix the problems. Nick Saban and Roy Willams were at least proven commodities going to Alabama and UNC and Florida took a gamble with Urban Meyer that did pay off.

    And please (anybody) do not say Billy Donovan. We already tried to offer Pile O Cash two years ago and that did not work. Running off a coach two years later to offer more is unlikely to do it, and at least with Florida he isn't going to have the fans calling for his job for back to back NIT's. That pressure belongs to Meyer.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    And please (anybody) do not say Billy Donovan. We already tried to offer Pile O Cash two years ago and that did not work.
    But you have no idea if it would or wouldn't work now. Who knows what Donovan or Calipari is thinking these days? Huge Pile O' Cash may convince one of them to leave their current situation this time around. None of us really knows for sure.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    But you have no idea if it would or wouldn't work now. Who knows what Donovan or Calipari is thinking these days? Huge Pile O' Cash may convince one of them to leave their current situation this time around. None of us really knows for sure.
    Is it worth firing a coach two seasons in just to find out?

    If Barnhardt put out feelers to see if Calipari or Donovan would be interested while Gillispie was still here, I could see that as an option.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Is it worth firing a coach two seasons in just to find out?

    If Barnhardt put out feelers to see if Calipari or Donovan would be interested while Gillispie was still here, I could see that as an option.
    First question - No, it's not.

    I agree with your second point. No way would I fire Billy now if I wasn't certain I could get the guy I wanted as the replacement.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    First question - No, it's not.

    I agree with your second point. No way would I fire Billy now if I wasn't certain I could get the guy I wanted as the replacement.
    Ha, well if it were Donovan, he'd maybe just change his mind a few days later and go back to UF.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Donovan verbally accepted the UK offer on the day of the national title game with OSU, but then backed out to negotiate with Orlando when his wife wasn't thrilled with the idea of leaving Florida. Then D decided he didn't want to go to Orlando after like three days and it became a media circus. Christine is more open to leaving Florida now than she was in 2007. Just sayin'.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    To me that is like a teenager saying to his parents, "You don't understand me" or "You don't understand my generation".
    ...and typically, the parents DO understand him and his generation but the teenager doesn't realize this until he becomes a parent and discovers that he really didn't know more than his parents.

    Seriously, though, my line of thinking was how the media landscape is different nowadays. Internet, 24-hour sports shows on television AND radio, combined with the changing culture makes today a far different landscape than when Rupp was coaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    My point is, I don't really care how Gillispie acts with the media, and if the team was winning, I doubt very many would have cared. Do I think he should do a better job? Yes. Would I fire him because of how he talked to Jeanine Edwards? Of course not.

    Adolph Rupp was able to get a free pass because he won. If you want to look at a modern day example, take Jim Calhoun. He isn't exactly a media darling, but he wins.
    This is where I just have to agree with you. When it's all said and done we want a coach who will win. The personality and his positive interaction with today's media and fans is secondary. I just don't think it's impossible to have both. And when he displays neither qualities, it makes it hard to pull for the guy.

    You know, as I think more about Rupp and how he related to those around him, I wonder if he avoided the negative attitudes from fans because he was a lot like them, not just because he won. The roles of men in general and coaches in particular was perceived differently in Rupp's day. What we call "harsh" today would be considered a character-builder then. I can't back that up, but it's just something I was thinking about.
    Last edited by durl; 03-18-2009 at 04:16 PM.

  12. #86
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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Konner Tucker committed this afternoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  13. #87
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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    At least with Florida he isn't going to have the fans calling for his job for back to back NIT's.

    Don't be so sure. Come listen to some idiot sports talk down here.

    Florida basketball fans have tasted success. Missing last year was fine. "We lost everyone, what do you expect? Next year will be better."

    Only it wasn't. There is absolutely a segment of the fan base that has soured.

    You're right that a lot of the pressure is reserved for Meyer, but Billy the (former) Kid bears his share.

    Big time college athletics, no matter the school or sport, is always to some degree going to be what have you done for me lately for a nice portion of the fan base, right or wrong.

    Now, come next year, they make it to the sweet sixteen, Billy will be the toast of the town with the same guys that are trying to get run him out of town. Just the way it is.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Gainesville Red View Post
    Don't be so sure. Come listen to some idiot sports talk down here.

    Florida basketball fans have tasted success. Missing last year was fine. "We lost everyone, what do you expect? Next year will be better."

    Only it wasn't. There is absolutely a segment of the fan base that has soured.

    You're right that a lot of the pressure is reserved for Meyer, but Billy the (former) Kid bears his share.

    Big time college athletics, no matter the school or sport, is always to some degree going to be what have you done for me lately for a nice portion of the fan base, right or wrong.

    Now, come next year, they make it to the sweet sixteen, Billy will be the toast of the town with the same guys that are trying to get run him out of town. Just the way it is.
    IMO, Florida will be back in contention next year if Calathes doesn't depart. From everything I have seen, Kenny Boynton is the real deal. Just imagine if Jai Lucas had kept his head screwed on straight. Lucas, Boynton, and Calathes could have been something special.

    As for Billy D and Kentucky, UK's real chance with Donovan would have been in 1997 after Rick Pitino left for the Celtics. It was basically between him and Tubby and Tubby jumped at the offer first. To be honest, I am semi-glad it worked out that way because at the time, Donovan was still a young coach with no real pedigree outside of being a Pitino disciple. I shudder to think of how the same fans who are ready to crucify Gillispie would have handled Donovan, because I see a lot of similarities between 1997 Donovan and 2009 Gillispie.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Konner Tucker committed this afternoon.
    It's going to be fun to watch. I'm kinda wondering if Liggins is going to be back, but from what I have heard Tucker is a sharpshooter, which with Hood coming in we will have plenty of firepower.

    I hope Kentucky still pursues Eric Bledsoe, but this will likely knock them out of the running.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: University of Kentucky Basketball

    I read that Tucker will be more of a combo guard so it would still leave room for Bledsoe. I think BG might just be acquiring as many solid guards that he can.

    I can't stand to read the UK boards anymore. The anti BG crowd voices their opinions too much. All recruits brought in now, are apparently terrible, etc..


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