Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 84

Thread: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

  1. #31
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,092

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    I tell the Angels, Arroyo for Adenhart/Aybar and no Matthews.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Amarillo, TX
    Posts
    13,837

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    I tell the Angels, Arroyo for Adenhart/Aybar and no Matthews.

    Never happen.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,258

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    I tell the Angels, Arroyo for Adenhart/Aybar and no Matthews.
    Adenhart is their best prospect, per BA. Aybar is their starting SS. Arroyo costs at least 20 million dollars. If he gets hurt, the Angels are screwed. No chance they make that deal.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  5. #34
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,092

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Never happen.

    Then it doesn't happen. But I don't want Matthews back to make that so.

  6. #35
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,296

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Adenhart is their best prospect, per BA. Aybar is their starting SS. Arroyo costs at least 20 million dollars. If he gets hurt, the Angels are screwed. No chance they make that deal.
    Why? The Angles aren't in a position to trade from a surplus. They need a starting pitcher, the Reds don't need to get rid of Arroyo. They Reds can say we want Adenhart/Aybar + someone else. The Angles say no, but that doesn't help their starting pitching. Supply and Demand, the Reds have the supply the Angles have the demand.

  7. #36
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,481

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    If the Reds could flip Arroyo for a legit SS, I'd feel a lot better about our chances this season.

  8. #37
    Member Strikes Out Looking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,521

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    I see Nick Masset going to California to take a shot as a starter there with the Reds getting a A/AA prospect.

  9. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,258

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Why? The Angles aren't in a position to trade from a surplus. They need a starting pitcher, the Reds don't need to get rid of Arroyo. They Reds can say we want Adenhart/Aybar + someone else. The Angles say no, but that doesn't help their starting pitching. Supply and Demand, the Reds have the supply the Angles have the demand.
    I hope you're right, but, when millions of dollars are involved, it rarely works that way. By taking on Arroyo, the Angels are handing the Reds 20 million dollars. That is the only guarantee in the transaction, and that counts for a lot because GMs answer to their owners. Jocketty can always go back to Castellini and say that even if the team did not produce a decent replacement for Arroyo, he saved Big Bob 20 million. If Arroyo craps out or gets hurt, the Angels GM is left holding the bag. This is why teams work so hard to "make the dollars work" in deals, so that neither party has to take on a double dose of risk.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  10. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,258

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    I see Nick Masset going to California to take a shot as a starter there with the Reds getting a A/AA prospect.
    More likely than a big deal happening, that's for sure.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #40
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,092

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    But since the Angels are one of the few "big money" teams, they are in a unique position to have to take on the monetary risk, to make a deal like this work, without the Reds having to even the money. They are a "have".
    Last edited by membengal; 03-30-2009 at 04:09 PM.

  12. #41
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,319

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Aybar is not enough for me to give up Arroyo.
    I realize he is young, but he hasn't had a good year at the plate since 2005 in AA.

    Arroyo for Aybar seems like the reverse of the trade we did to get Arroyo (good pitcher for a prospect that is more flash than substance, and whose prospect label is failing).

    LAA would have to kick in more to make this deal work. Shedding Arroyo's salary has questionable value, especially at this point of the year.

    Also consider that Aybar is getting close to arbitration.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #42
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,296

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I hope you're right, but, when millions of dollars are involved, it rarely works that way. By taking on Arroyo, the Angels are handing the Reds 20 million dollars. That is the only guarantee in the transaction, and that counts for a lot because GMs answer to their owners. Jocketty can always go back to Castellini and say that even if the team did not produce a decent replacement for Arroyo, he saved Big Bob 20 million. If Arroyo craps out or gets hurt, the Angels GM is left holding the bag. This is why teams work so hard to "make the dollars work" in deals, so that neither party has to take on a double dose of risk.
    Don't quite know what to say. If the Angles trade for Arroyo they aren't handing the Reds $20M. That is Arroyo's contract but the Reds don't need to trade him. The only guarantee in any contract is that the club is on the hook for the entire amount of the contract.

    Its a possibility that any player can get injured. Arroyo has shown no history of injury and has taken the ball every 5th day since he has been a Red. There is a risk of injury for every player, one signed in the off season, one currently on the roster, and one traded for. I just don't see a club operating in that manner.

  14. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,258

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    But since the Angels are on of the few "big money" teams, they are in a unique position to have to take on the monetary risk, to make a deal like this work, without the Reds having to even the money. They are a "have".
    This is true, but that doesn't bestow a single ounce of leverage on the Reds. The decision to spend is entirely with the Angels, and their GM, if he's any good, would act as if he had little financial flexibility. That's why I'm fairly certain that if they're looking at Arroyo/Harang, they're trying to foist Matthews on the Reds, too. If they sense the Reds are in salary dump mode, they'll offer piddling prospects in return -- that's how "haves" operate.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  15. #44
    Member membengal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Baltimore
    Posts
    9,092

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    It does if the Reds have something the Angels want/need. If not, then the Reds happily tell the Angels to look elsewhere.

  16. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,258

    Re: Angels interested in Reds pitching?

    If the Angles trade for Arroyo they aren't handing the Reds $20M. That is Arroyo's contract but the Reds don't need to trade him. The only guarantee in any contract is that the club is on the hook for the entire amount of the contract.
    The Angels are going to feel out the Reds' motivations, if the Reds appear willing to deal Arroyo. You say the Reds don't have to deal Arroyo -- are you sure? Maybe the Reds, in this economy, fear they're going to have to shed payroll, and want to do so before that becomes glaringly obvious in June, when teams will offer them nothing. Baseball is a business, above all. As much as teams analyze each other's roster surplusses and deficits, they will tease out each other's financial positions, too. The Angels GM is going to open his negotiation as if the Reds are dumping salary, while the Reds are going to say it isn't. The Angels guy will say, "OK, if you're not interested in dumping dollars, let's swap contracts (Arroyo for Matthews), and I'll throw in some nice talent." If the Reds balk, the Angels guy comes back and says, "So, you are interested in cutting dollars, then, it seems." And the negotiation goes on from there.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25