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Thread: Phillips a good fit at 4?

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    Phillips a good fit at 4?

    So Paul Daughtery wrote today about how bad a fit BPhil is at the clean up spot. I know this was discussed back when Dusty announced that he would be batting there, but now that we've had 11 games under our belt, what do you guys think about him there?

    My initial thought is to agree with Daugherty. He doesnt instill the kind of fear in hitters you would want out of your 4 hitter. But then I wonder, who else do you put there? Votto is more of a natural 3. Bruce isnt seeing the ball and seems like a better fit at 5 or 6 anyway. Same with EE.

    Whats the best option at cleanup?

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.

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    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by will5979 View Post
    This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.
    Burrell = Dunn, and the Fo has decided that type of player is not a fit for this team. And Abreu is almost as bad as Dunn in the OF, which again doesntt fit the defensive mold the organization is going for.

    Sheffield wasn't avilable in the off-season and he decided to go to the Mets.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Abreu might be a liability in the field, but last I checked he was hitting around .360 this season. He might be a better option at the 4 if we had him, but he was the 3 hitter for the Yankees (and I think the Phils as well) and doesnt really hit a ton of HRs.

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    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Riddle me this: when is the last time Abreu OPS'd over .850? (2006)
    When is the last time Abreu hit over 20 HR? (2005)
    When is the last time Abreu hit 30 HR? (2004)

    How is this the "power threat" the team needs?

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    He is a perfect fit in the 2 slot. However, we have no other cleanup hitter.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    We can talk about what we should have done all day long but the reality is that we're stuck with what we have for now.Considering that I would rather EE bat 4th with Phillips moving to the 6th spot.This would probably not make a huge difference but thats just my personal preference.Either way we might be able to compete to the point where a little over .500 baseball is possible.But the 4th spot will IMO prevent this team from doing any better.I think its a real problem considering the supposed goals this year(making the playoffs).

    Sometimes you need to have the right parts to fix something thats not working.I sure hope that the front office is considering the possibility that this team does just enough to stay in the playoff race up until the trade deadline and what they will do to fix this problem.My hope is that if that time comes some of the guys that are really struggling now have come around making it clear what this offense needs to get over the hump.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorn View Post
    The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.
    I'll second that one. It's apparent Phillips isn't the answer--never was, never will be. I can't believe how often he check swings. It's very unsettling to my mind and my digestive system. The least he could do is give a professional AB. He has been walking more, but not enough to warrant a star on his bedtime checklist.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by thorn View Post
    The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.
    Bingo.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    EE should be in the 4 hole, for sure.

    It's not that he is the best for the 4 hole, it's that Phillips is also best for the 6 hole.

    EE gets walked a lot - one, because he's got a good eye, and 2, because our 7 & 8 hitters are horrendous. He's no risk to get in if the bag is open or there's 2 outs, etc...

    NOW, IF you had Phillips there, they are not going to want to give him a free pass. Because of his speed. There, he could steal some bags, and put himself in scoring position. Then a bloop single will get you a run. You're going to need a passed ball or a balk to get EE from 1st to 2nd.
    THIS is a Huge difference later in the lineup, as opposed to the 4 hole for Phillips.

    Sure, I'd bat him 4th against LHP, he murders them, but he's a liability vs RHP in general, let alone in the 4 hole. His lone 30-30 year, that he'll never repeat again, was more a product of KGJ and AD, and the luckiest rate of "just enough" HR balls - e.g. 340 to a 335 LF line, 357 to a 350 LCF gap, etc... - than any real raw power, especially against RHP. He in no way is the best option to bat 4th on an everyday basis.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    I feel that the clutch hitting of EE makes him the best suited for the cleanup spot. I always thought that BP would be a good 2 hole guy, then I saw his OBP. He is not fit for that spot. His speed does make him a threat, along with his quality power numbers, and his defense. I think that BP can put it all together when some of this weight is taken off his shoulders. Make the move, switch EE and BP.

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by will5979 View Post
    This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.
    Hit the nail on the head.

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    Retro-Gamer Krawhitham's Avatar
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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillipsHead View Post
    He is a perfect fit in the 2 slot. However, we have no other cleanup hitter.
    Votto says hello

    Yes he is your best hitter and the best hitter normally bats 3rd, but he is also the only one that drives in runs.

    Phillips is walking more this season but he is not hitting, let him walk in front of Votto so he can drive him in

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    Re: Phillips a good fit at 4?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    Votto says hello

    Yes he is your best hitter and the best hitter normally bats 3rd, but he is also the only one that drives in runs.

    Phillips is walking more this season but he is not hitting, let him walk in front of Votto so he can drive him in
    I agree that eventually Votto should be hitting cleanup, but if and until Phillips prove he can hit .280+, then he should've be our 3 hitter. While a Lineup of:

    Taveras
    Dickerson
    Phillips
    Votto
    EE
    Bruce
    Ramon

    works perfect as far as the right/left/right/left notion, Phillips has to pick it up a lot, because at this point, it's about getting your best hitter more at-bats....and that's why Votto's hitting 3.


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