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Thread: Our Outfield Defense

  1. #1
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Our Outfield Defense

    Was driving to work last night, listening to the game, when CDick made that costly error in LF. The next batter flied out, so if he catches that ball, Owings gets out of the inning unscathed, regardless of the walks.

    It frustrated me, but I'm not going to come down too hard on CDick right now.

    But listening to Marty and Cowboy - who at times I take with a grain of salt - they claim that so far this season our OF defense has been quite "abysmal". And they back that up with several assertions as to why....

    - guys taking bad routes to the balls, possibly through misjudgments/misreads
    - miscommunication between the OFers causing some gaffes

    And they feel this comes from a lack of cohesiveness among this group because of unfamiliarity in playing time with each other, really being able to "gel", get settled in, and feel comfortable with one another.

    And one also has to throw in the element of youth and inexperience at the ML level with kids like Bruce and CDick.

    In these early stages of the season, we've had both WT and Bruce out because of sickness and injury. And we don't seem to have a set LFer.

    I like CDick. I think the kid should be given a legitimate shot at being the everyday LFer. Let him prove himself one way or the other. Dusty seems to like this platoon situation in LF between CDick and Hairston. And it's based on this position that CDick is "weak" vs LH'd pitching? Is that necessarily a proven? He had 21 A/Bs last year vs LH'd pitching, which yes, is a small window for ML level pitching; but he still put up some pretty solid numbers in those instances.....

    .286 BA .426 OB% .429 SLG% .855 OPS

    Hairston is a super-sub as far as I'm concerned. I like having him on my bench. But, historically speaking, we all also know, because Hairston has been around a several years, what to expect from him.

    CDick has had 27 A/Bs in 11 games. Hairston 24. I just think CDick should be given the greater opportunity.

    On a different note.....

    Me likes Janish's play at SS.

    I'm going to cut Agon some slack right now. Yeah, he too has been abysmal. But the guy was out for a year, and even saw limited playing time in ST. So his timing is off right now. That's evident by a .094 BA and .171 OB%. The guys is better then this.

    I personally would have liked to have seen this FO getting Gonzo to accept a rehab assignment at Louisville for maybe the first month of the season to take the pressure off of him, and allow him to get into playing form and get his timing back.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  3. #2
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Could be worse. Could have a .900 OPS guy out there being non cohesive.
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  4. #3
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    What's the general thought on Tavares' defense? To the eye, he's been better than I expected, but I don't know how accurate my observance is--you tend to just notice the out-of-the-ordinary. istm that he covers a lot of territory out there and does so efficiently.

    btw, I think the Reds need to put Dickerson out there on a consistent basis and see if he can cut it. Hairston can get playing time elsewhere, if that's the concern. And given the way he ran down the line on that DP tonight, he may not be 100% anyway.

  5. #4
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    He covers a TON of ground and has a good glove, his reads off the bat leave something to be desired though IMO.
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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    He covers a TON of ground and has a good glove, his reads off the bat leave something to be desired though IMO.
    I seem to remember that was the book on Taveras--good speed to cover ground and fix mistakes, but prone to "lazy" reads because of it. I'm also not sure whether his arm is anything to write home about. That said, he's really not too bad. Just not great by any stretch.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    I've been very impressed with Jay Bruce's defense so far this season. Aside from him slipping on wet grass in the second game of the season, his defense has been very good. He's thrown a couple runners out at the plate and he's made a few diving catches and/or running grabs. He can cover some ground out there. That was a nice catch he made tonight on a Derrek Lee foul ball over near the Reds bullpen.

    Taveras has been okay defensively. I just wish he would scoot back about 15-20 feet. He plays a very shallow center field. I'd rather give up bloop singles than doubles or triples.

    Dickerson covers a ton of ground in left field, he just needs to work on catching the ball.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I've been very impressed with Jay Bruce's defense so far this season. Aside from him slipping on wet grass in the second game of the season, his defense has been very good. He's thrown a couple runners out at the plate and he's made a few diving catches and/or running grabs. He can cover some ground out there. That was a nice catch he made tonight on a Derrek Lee foul ball over near the Reds bullpen.

    Taveras has been okay defensively. I just wish he would scoot back about 15-20 feet. He plays a very shallow center field. I'd rather give up bloop singles than doubles or triples.



    Dickerson covers a ton of ground in left field, he just needs to work on catching the ball.
    OBM,I could'nt agree with you more with Taveras scares me to death playing so shallow.Its going bite him in the but if he does'nt back up and play a normal CF.
    I can spell,I just can't type!!

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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Taveras is average, all things considered. (UZR agrees with that assessment as well, BTW.) But his fly ball tracking is horrendous and his routes to the ball are sometimes Freel-like. But his speed makes up for some serious questions. I'm guessing, with the smaller yard, Willy settles into a slightly above or below average CF.

    Bruce has been decent, but no great shakes. His arm is good enough that he may lead the NL in OF assists at one point in his career. With his speed and athleticism, not to mention his work ethic, Bruce could eventually become a Gold Glover Just not yet.

    LF has been the disappointment so far this season. Both Hairston and Dickerson graded out as well above average defensive players last season. Both have outstanding defensive tools, including good LF arms, speed to burn, and supple leather. Neither has shown anything remotely decent in the first 12 games this season. Dickerson look tentative and Hairston looks like a completely different player. (Way more laid back, less focused, veteran-y, old.) While Dickerson may again become aggressive, the key, IMO, for Hairston is being sharp all the time. He can't afford that lacksadasical approach.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  10. #9
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Playing shallow is what great CF do. Taveras problem is that he can't judge a fly ball and breaks the wrong way almost every time. He's usually fast enough to make the play anyway, but that makes his playing shallow backfire on him sometimes. Still, for a CF to truely be a good CF, he has to be able to play shallow and take away those hits.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    If he learns how to track a fly ball, Taveras may become a Gold Glover.

    Of course, that's kind of like saying, if Taveras learns how to take a walk, he'd be a good leadoff guy.

    Easier said than done.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  12. #11
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I've been very impressed with Jay Bruce's defense so far this season. Aside from him slipping on wet grass in the second game of the season, his defense has been very good. He's thrown a couple runners out at the plate and he's made a few diving catches and/or running grabs. He can cover some ground out there. That was a nice catch he made tonight on a Derrek Lee foul ball over near the Reds bullpen.

    Taveras has been okay defensively. I just wish he would scoot back about 15-20 feet. He plays a very shallow center field. I'd rather give up bloop singles than doubles or triples.

    Dickerson covers a ton of ground in left field, he just needs to work on catching the ball.
    Let me tell you that the ball that JB got to by the bullpen tonight was nothing short of amazing. On a dead sprint, had to go over the bullpen mounds, and caught in 1 foot from the stands. Everything just went right for the Reds tonight. It's weird how it seems like nothing goes right for days, then it all goes right for one night, and the reds only win by 3.

    Had a great view of that catch. It helped that the wind was blowin in big time tonight.

  13. #12
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Nothing goes right for days? Cincinnati's been winning fairly often lately. They won series against both Houston and Milwaukee, teams that have historically killed them.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  14. #13
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Nothing goes right for days? Cincinnati's been winning fairly often lately. They won series against both Houston and Milwaukee, teams that have historically killed them.
    (Please note my sig).

    When I go to games, it seriously does not go the Reds way. The Reds have enjoyed extreme luck all season, but I was not shocked to see that luck go away the night I was in attendance. Tonight was different. It really wasn't a lucky night (like a few of the houston games were), but things just fell the Reds way.

    By saying things haven't gone right for days, I mean that the Red's bloops haven't found holes, and neither have their liners. They've gotten hits when they've needed to, but you never got the feeling that the Reds were "getting it going."

    However, this team does make you feel that, we may not get the best offensive production, but we're going to pitch and play some D, and that is gonna lead to some ugly/lucky wins. And believe me. I'll take that.

  15. #14
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Our Outfield Defense

    That Wednesday night game was gem to watch. Excellent pitching complemented with very sound defense. If those two elements can continue with this team, then they will be a team to watch in the NL this year.

    But it always comes back to pitching. If pitchers keep you in games, they then give even this offense a chance to win.

    The Tuesday game was an example of the opposite - we lost that game, or the chance to win it, because of an inning of bad pitching (walks), and a poor defensive play, that allowed three unearned runs to cross the plate. But defense was even more instrumental because regardless of Owing's struggles in that inning, our defense could have gotten him out of it.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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