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Thread: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

  1. #61
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Okay, Hairston is over the hump and is on the downside of his career and won't repeat his 2008 stats. I'll buy that.

    Nix has potential that he MAY reach even though he's 28. I'll even buy that.

    But I still want no part of a bench player being the "answer" who still k's a ton. I still want no part of a bench player being the "answer" who has no defensive skills (Gomes). And I still want no part of a bench player being the "answer" who has only seen a handful of MLB plate appearances (Bankston).

    These guys are hole-fillers (Hairston included). I don't expect great production from any of them. And since I'm only going to get/expect average to mediocre production at the plate, I want solid versitility off the plate. McDonald gives me speed & solid d at all 3 OF slots. Hairston gives me speed & solid d at several slots (if & of). Nix has some power and a hot bat so we ride him. Other than that, we bide our time until Frazier/Stubbs/Francisco/Valiaka/etc are ready to provide REAL answers.

    I'm just saying let's not demonize Hairston for being in a slump. He's far from being a drag on the club. He still provides some needed versatility on this club.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 04-30-2009 at 08:13 PM.
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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  3. #62
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    But I still want no part of a bench player being the "answer" who still k's a ton.
    Who bloody cares? I grew up watching Mike Schmidt. He K-ed a ton and he's the best 3B ever to play the game. If Nix is going to get on base and hit for power and play quality defense then big whoop if when he makes an out it's by strikeout. I can see being reticent to hand the job to an unproven player (though that's all the Reds have) and it's perfectly reasonable to take the position that the Reds are going to have to spread around the playing time in OF, but grousing that a guy with some power strikes out is a completely bogus complaint. The two tend walk hand-in-hand.
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  4. #63
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Who bloody cares? I grew up watching Mike Schmidt. He K-ed a ton and he's the best 3B ever to play the game. If Nix is going to get on base and hit for power and play quality defense then big whoop if when he makes an out it's by strikeout. I can see being reticent to hand the job to an unproven player (though that's all the Reds have) and it's perfectly reasonable to take the position that the Reds are going to have to spread around the playing time in OF, but grousing that a guy with some power strikes out is a completely bogus complaint. The two tend walk hand-in-hand.
    I wasn't bashing Nix. But it's starting to sound as if he's the new flavor of the month and he's the answer to our LF problems. I'm rarely one to bandy around stats and such but one phrase I hear spouted over and over again by those who know the stats is "small sample size". The "if" in your statement about him getting on base, hitting for power and playing quality defense is a rather BIG "if", if you ask me. I'm nowhere close to being ready to say Nix is a better answer than Hairston/Dickerson/McDonald/Gomes or whoever. What I was commenting on was that in Nix's career (heads off to find some stats to back it up) of just over 900 ab's (not exactly a small sample size wouldn't you agree), he's hit .238 with only 30 homeruns (far from having great power), drawn only 44 walks (in 900 ab's that HORRIBLE) but k'd 256 times (quite a high number for 900 ab's). It just seems unfair to give Nix the benefit of the doubt because of his injuries in the past hampering his abilities, but not doing the same for Hairston. I'm not saying one is better than the other...just that neither is the answer.

    And yeah, Schmidt was great, but I'll take Brooks over Mike. :O)
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  5. #64
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Who said play the hot hand? Oh yeah, a bunch of people. I'm with them. I've never understood letting a guy languish at .180 just because he's supposed to play a position. If the player doesn't hit or field well, play someone else who can.

    Of course that's too simple.

    Nix will not hit .350 all season. In fact, he might stink it up tomorrow, but if he does hit .350, he'll get offered a 2-year deal for mega millions and then stink it up. It's in the stars.
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  6. #65
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    I think Highlifeman is Nix's biggest supporter. I remember him touting Nix a few months ago.

    I like Nix. I really like his batting stance and his swing. I said in another thread that I think he looks like a poor man's Josh Hamilton at the plate. Some guys look like they're going to smash the ball when they're at the plate. Nix is one of those guys.

    I also like his approach at the plate. He makes the pitcher work and has given many quality at-bats.

    I wouldn't hand the job over to him, but I would give him his fair share of starts to see what happens. You never know.
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    What I was commenting on was that in Nix's career (heads off to find some stats to back it up) of just over 900 ab's (not exactly a small sample size wouldn't you agree), he's hit .238 with only 30 homeruns (far from having great power), drawn only 44 walks (in 900 ab's that HORRIBLE) but k'd 256 times (quite a high number for 900 ab's).
    Again, he was ages 22-24 when he compiled those numbers. He got called up way too early. I'm not saying Nix is any sort of sure thing, but the stats he put up with the Rangers when he shouldn't have been in the majors don't have a whole lot to do with what you should expect from the guy now that he maybe should be in the majors.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    And yeah, Schmidt was great, but I'll take Brooks over Mike. :O)
    Brooks Robinson was so ridiculously overrated it's not even funny. I'd just as soon have Buddy Bell.
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  8. #67
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    I wouldn't hand the job over to him, but I would give him his fair share of starts to see what happens. You never know.
    That's my take too. Whoever does the job best gets to play.
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  9. #68
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    I think Highlifeman is Nix's biggest supporter. I remember him touting Nix a few months ago.
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  10. #69
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Laynce Nix

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Wasn't it said that Hairston was battling numerous injuries for many years prior to last season? That last season was his first really "healthy" year (yes, I recall his DL stints last year). Isn't it possible that he found his stroke and turned a corner last year?
    He only played in 80 games in his "healthy" year of 2008.

    If there really were lots of troublesome injuries prior to last season, shouldn't we look at the healthy AB's rather than the injured ones?
    But unless he was knowingly playing hurt, wouldn't the numbers he has accrued be the result of healthy ABs? When JHJ gets hurt, he goes on the DL, and one does not get ABs then.

    But I do think he's better than what his career numbers indicate.
    That may be; but injuries have plagued him for most of his career. And he is now 32.

    Take the three seasons when he played 100+ games. Not impressive....

    Code:
    	G	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	SO    AVG	OBP	SLG	OPS
    
    2001	159	532	63	124	47	44	73   .233	.305	.344	.649
    2002	122	426	55	114	32	34	55   .268	.329	.376	.705
    2005	114	380	51	99	30	31	46   .261	.336	.368	.704
    I like this Fantasy projection from ESPN. I think it is on the mark concerning JHJ....

    Problem is, his .326 batting average was mostly a mirage; he had an unrealistically high .357 mark on balls in play and a .410 clip in his home games. Hairston can be a useful bench player worth subbing in against left-handed pitchers, but his .330 career on-base percentage says he has no business batting in the top third of a lineup, and his .370 career slugging percentage says he shouldn't be anywhere in a lineup on a regular basis. This is a Dusty Baker team, though, meaning Hairston could play about half the time in left field at least, but if you're expecting more than his traditional .270 batting average and perhaps double-digit steals, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Guys like JHJ, Nix, Freel, and a host of others who have passed through this organization in recent years, are utility players most teams would love to have on their benches due to their versatility. This organization doesn't seem to recognize that, and makes attempts to turn them into everyday players. And their solution to take two of these players and then platoon them (dividing up that playing time so these "weaknesses" aren't as glaring) isn't the answer either IMO.
    Last edited by GAC; 05-01-2009 at 04:21 AM.
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  11. #70
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I feel a song coming on!

    One of these things is not like the others,



    One of these things just doesn't belong,



    Can you tell which thing is not like the others



    By the time I finish my song?

    Ok Nate but to me the graphs show something much more interesting. He was trending upward across the board until 05 when you saw his numbers begin to tank. According to Hariston that corresponds to an injury he suffered running into the wall in Chicago. Whats even more interesting if you would take his trend line and extend it, without injury, his 08 season was good, but maybe not a fluke. That may correspond to Hariston saying last year was his first year healthy since that fateful run in with the wall.

  12. #71
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Ok Nate but to me the graphs show something much more interesting. He was trending upward across the board until 05 when you saw his numbers begin to tank. According to Hariston that corresponds to an injury he suffered running into the wall in Chicago. Whats even more interesting if you would take his trend line and extend it, without injury, his 08 season was good, but maybe not a fluke. That may correspond to Hariston saying last year was his first year healthy since that fateful run in with the wall.
    Again, I'm not saying he's horrible, I'm fine with him as a 25th man. I'm OK with him as a backup, I'm OK with him starting once a week or so.

    I'm not fine with the myth that 2008 represented his true skill level and we should expect him to put up anywhere near those kinds of numbers again. Notice all of his "good" years where he's above his average are accompanied by a similar rise in BABIP; especially last year's ridiculous .360! That is totally and utterly unsustainable.
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  13. #72
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Brooks Robinson was so ridiculously overrated it's not even funny. I'd just as soon have Buddy Bell.
    Ummm...wow. Just wow. I'm not even sure how to begin to respond to that one. But okay. Another case of agree to disagree apparently.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  14. #73
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Ok Nate but to me the graphs show something much more interesting. He was trending upward across the board until 05 when you saw his numbers begin to tank. According to Hariston that corresponds to an injury he suffered running into the wall in Chicago. Whats even more interesting if you would take his trend line and extend it, without injury, his 08 season was good, but maybe not a fluke. That may correspond to Hariston saying last year was his first year healthy since that fateful run in with the wall.
    That was it. I knew I remembered there being something about an injury and last year being his first healthy year going into the season.

    And I agree with Nate's assessment. His 2008 numbers are not his true ability. But he's better than the whole of his career averages. And he's still useful as a bench player. I only took exception to the "he's proven he can't hit major league pitching" comment.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  15. #74
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Ummm...wow. Just wow. I'm not even sure how to begin to respond to that one. But okay. Another case of agree to disagree apparently.
    It's true, he played a position that matters defensively but look at the top 20 players in plate appearances and tell me that his OPS, RC/27, BA and HR vs the league average is as nice as his peers.

    Code:
    PLATE APPEARANCES               PA       OPS     RC/G      AVG      HR     
    1    Pete Rose                 15861     .070     1.37     .041     -132   
    2    Carl Yastrzemski          13991     .130     1.98     .028      165   
    3    Hank Aaron                13940     .202     2.96     .042      457   
    4    Rickey Henderson          13346     .076     2.18     .013       -5   
    5    Ty Cobb                   13073     .242     4.65     .094       50   
    6    Cal Ripken                12883     .042     0.42     .010      109   
    7    Eddie Murray              12817     .101     1.42     .023      217   
    8    Stan Musial               12712     .236     4.37     .064      234   
    9    Barry Bonds               12606     .300     5.69     .031      496   
    10   Craig Biggio              12503     .037     0.92     .013      -23   
    11   Willie Mays               12492     .210     3.29     .038      390   
    12   Dave Winfield             12358     .099     1.21     .019      201   
    13   Robin Yount               12249     .050     0.82     .023      -12   
    14   Paul Molitor              12160     .078     1.58     .041      -44   
    15   Rafael Palmeiro           12046     .131     2.02     .021      273   
    16   Eddie Collins             12039     .143     2.55     .059      -18   
    17   Tris Speaker              11989     .215     3.90     .070       52   
    18   Brooks Robinson           11782     .012     0.03     .012       -2   
    19   Frank Robinson            11743     .206     3.13     .034      337   
    20   Honus Wagner              11738     .177     3.61     .061       49

  16. #75
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Should Laynce Nix get more playing time?

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Ok Nate but to me the graphs show something much more interesting. He was trending upward across the board until 05 when you saw his numbers begin to tank. According to Hariston that corresponds to an injury he suffered running into the wall in Chicago. Whats even more interesting if you would take his trend line and extend it, without injury, his 08 season was good, but maybe not a fluke. That may correspond to Hariston saying last year was his first year healthy since that fateful run in with the wall.
    But he wasn't exactly healthy last year.

    And if all this is true then why doesn't Baker have confidence in him as an everyday starter? And where should he then play him? In 2005, while managing the Cubs, he went back and forth with Hairston, Patterson, Perez, and Lawton as leadoff men. Quite frustrating.

    JHJ will never be nothing more then a utility player. At least that is where he should be.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations


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