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Thread: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

  1. #16
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Where is he going to play? Center bench?

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  3. #17
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Re: the Hopper question


    NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  4. #18
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Just throwing this out there, but the WBC did Ramierz NO favors. He shouldn't have gone. He's was barely worked there. And he is way behind where he should be.
    The list of pitchers that got messed up by the WBC is growing. Dice-K, Oliver Perez, to some extent I think Volquez was behind as well.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  5. #19
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    The list of pitchers that got messed up by the WBC is growing. Dice-K, Oliver Perez, to some extent I think Volquez was behind as well.
    I think im gonna blame them on just having bad starts more than the WBC.

    Perez is doing extactly what he did last year, and Dice K and Volquez are both walking the world, which is similar to whatthey did last year as well.

  6. #20
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Anybody thinking it's time to see Norris Hopper in Cinti?
    Heck no.

  7. #21
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    I think im gonna blame them on just having bad starts more than the WBC.

    Perez is doing extactly what he did last year, and Dice K and Volquez are both walking the world, which is similar to whatthey did last year as well.
    Don't make me go find the research I have posted three times in ORG on the havoc that was created to SPers after the 2006 WBC. The evidence is FAR from just anecdotal.

  8. #22
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Don't make me go find the research I have posted three times in ORG on the havoc that was created to SPers after the 2006 WBC. The evidence is FAR from just anecdotal.
    Pick 3 better examples next time then.

  9. #23
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    I picked Ramirez.

    I didn't pick the others.

    And you can ignore that evidence if you want, but it is AMPLE to suggest that the biggest problem you get from the WBC for starters is massive disruption to routine. Which is what happened to Ramirez. And then some.

    It was easier to find the post I made on my own blog, my apologies for posting it here, in five years I have never cross-linked to my blog, but is the easiest place to reference Nate Silver's data:

    http://www.sportsfrog.com/2009/02/28...l-classic-maw/
    Last edited by membengal; 05-05-2009 at 10:31 AM.

  10. #24
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    yea you didnt pick him whoops sorry, but I still think the link isn't that big for it to matter that much. Could it effect some? Sure, but is it solely to blame for when a pitcher has a bad year? Nope.

  11. #25
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Did you look at Nate Silver's data from 2006? Or are you just going to ignore it?

    And I missed the part where we had played the entire 2009 season yet. I posited that an explanation for Ramirez's slow start was his ill-advised decision to go to the WBC. That supposition was based on real actual data from 2006 that provides a baseline with regard to the potential problem. I would hope that as the year goes on, and he gets properly loose (he's really just at the tail end of a natural spring training at this point), he will revert to being fine.
    Last edited by membengal; 05-05-2009 at 11:03 AM.

  12. #26
    Louisville Bats Expert batsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    I remember hearing the the Venezuelan WBC pitching coach was telling Ramon Ramirez to throw his change-up less often. Bad advice IMO. His change up is by far and away his best pitch. I was at the game last night and Ramirez had NO control. It seemed like half his pitches were in the dirt, and all the hits were screaming liners.

  13. #27
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Did you look at Nate Silver's data from 2006? Or are you just going to ignore it?

    And I missed the part where we had played the entire 2009 season yet. I posited that an explanation for Ramirez's slow start was his ill-advised decision to go to the WBC. That supposition was based on real actual data from 2006 that provides a baseline with regard to the potential problem I would hope that as the year goes on, and he gets properly loose (he's really just at the tail end of a natural spring training at this point), he will revert to being fine.
    I didnt ignore it at all, I just say the connection isnt strong enough for me to jump on the board that the WBC ruins pitchers.

  14. #28
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Well, I focused on just one pitcher. Ramirez. And there is data that in 2006 the WBC adversely affected a large number of starting pitchers. The word "ruin" is yours. You are strawmaning that into a conversation to argue a point that no one is making.

    My basic premise is that a possible explanation for Ramirez's slow start is his participation in the WBC. I am unconvinced that is potentially wrong explanation based upon "nuh uh".

  15. #29
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    I didnt ignore it at all, I just say the connection isnt strong enough for me to jump on the board that the WBC ruins pitchers.
    Not ruined. But a contributing factor to their slow starts and/or DL stints. Definitely behind in their conditioning and prepartion for the regular season.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  16. #30
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    Re: Monday 5/4/09 minor league updates

    Correct. You didn't say ruined. I didn't say ruined. And the hypothesis that the WBC was less than optimal for some starting pitchers in terms of quick starts to the season is fair.


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