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Thread: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

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    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    A lot of copy gets devoted to Micah Owings' hitting skills, and many have suggested he give up pitching for life as a position player. Without venturing an opinion on that question, I will say that a pitcher who can hit is kooky fun.

    With that in mind I thought it might make some sense to track Owings' ERA+ relative to his OPS+. Is he a better hitter than a pitcher? Well, we can follow his performance against a park-adjusted average in order to make that determination.

    In 2007 he had a respectable 109 ERA+ and a phenomenal 153 OPS+.

    In 2008 he had a lousy 77 ERA+ and a mediocre (though stellar for a pitcher) 97 OPS+

    So far this season he's got a 94 ERA+ and a 97 OPS+.
    Last edited by M2; 05-05-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Can you break those 2 stats down for those of us who don't know what they mean in SABR terms? Thanks!

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    100 ERA+ = average
    100 OPS+ = average

    above 100 = above average
    below 100 = below average

    OPS+ definition from Wikipedia:

    OPS+, Adjusted OPS, is a closely related statistic. OPS+ is OPS adjusted for the park and the league in which the player played, but not for fielding position. An OPS+ of 100 is defined to be the league average. An OPS+ of 150 or more is excellent and 125 very good, while an OPS+ of 75 or below is poor.

    Another explanation of both OPS+ and ERA+.

    http://blog.nj.com/yankees/2009/01/e...s_and_era.html

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    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

    I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!

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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFelixCat View Post
    Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

    I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!
    It can be adjusted. For example, if you get into BR's splits, they can weight a player's OPS+ to his position or batting order.

    Code:
    Split   G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO   BA  OBP   SLG   OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
    as P    4    10 10 1 2  1  0  0   0  0  0  0  4 .200 .200  .300  .500  3   0   0  0  0   0   0  .333    30   192
    as PH   4     4  4 0 2  2  0  0   2  0  0  0  2 .500 .500 1.000 1.500  4   0   0  0  0   0   0 1.000   275   326
    The "tOPS+" relates the split to the player's total OPS+. So, as a pitcher this year, Owings hasn't been as good as he usually is with the bat. On the other hand, he's been awesome as a pinch hitter. sOPS+ is what he did versus the league relative to that split. So, both as a pitcher and pinch hitter, he's doing well.

    In really small sample sizes.
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Small sample size, but seeing he is close to ave at both is probably pretty good considering he's your 5th starter and 9th hitter and occassional PH. Those 2007 numbers are wicked though.
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFelixCat View Post
    Cool, thanks. So is his OPS+ right near average as a ML positional player or strictly as a NL pitcher? IOW, is OPS+ adjusted, or measured by, position or just 'league average'? Ie. pitchers vs pitchers, 2B vs 2B etc.

    I assume it's just ML player, not broken down by position, but just thought I'd clear that up too, thanks!
    OPS+ is not adjusted for position, so Owings as a hitter is only slightly below the average NL regular.
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?

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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?

    Regular size Owings or mini-Owings?
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    So would Owings get a hit off Owings? Or would Owings get Owings out?
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Without venturing an opinion on that question, I will say that a pitcher who can hit is kooky fun.
    You've definitely got that right. It's probably one of the more wild baseball situations that I like more than any others. The possibilities and ways that Owings can help the team are immense.

    Owings might be the best hitting pitcher since Wes Ferrell.
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    It looks like Owings as a pitcher and Owings as a hitter are fairly equal, so it could be a fairly good battle between himself, I bet the mind games would be sickening as well. Is there anyone out there that could quantify this, maybe a EPA+ in relation to other pitchers. As a major league average pitcher (a hypothetical 3-4 starter) in the 5 hole, he is bringing incredible value. If his bat were included in his pitching stats, where would that place him among other starters in overall value or win shares?
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    Quote Originally Posted by tripleaaaron View Post
    It looks like Owings as a pitcher and Owings as a hitter are fairly equal, so it could be a fairly good battle between himself, I bet the mind games would be sickening as well. Is there anyone out there that could quantify this, maybe a EPA+ in relation to other pitchers. As a major league average pitcher (a hypothetical 3-4 starter) in the 5 hole, he is bringing incredible value. If his bat were included in his pitching stats, where would that place him among other starters in overall value or win shares?
    It largely depends on how many plate appearances he ultimately gets, but if he creates say ... 15 runs ... then that would be the rough equivalent of slicing nearly 15 runs from his earned run total. Pitchers typically create 0 or just a few runs each season. Arroyo created 5 last year for the Reds, but he actually had a very nice season offensively for a pitcher.

    FWIW, there is a group of baseball historians out there that heavily support Wes Ferrell's case for election into the Hall of Fame. Ferrell was a very good pitcher, but his pitching record alone isn't Hall worthy (though he's better than a handful of pitchers who were mistakenly voted in). But Ferrell's supporters argue that once you factor in his offensive contributions that he was a Hall worthy overall player, and it's an argument that I'm kind of in agreement with.
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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    I love Owings as the fifth starter. It's like having a DH every 5th game and only your team has it. The guy is so much better than the 5th spot dreck run out there the past few years and improving that giveaway every fifth day to a guy who gives you a chance with almost league average pitching and an advantage of a true hitter in the 9 hole. Plus, you're right - it's blast to watch the guy

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    Re: Micah Owings ERA+ vs. OPS+

    I've asked this in a round-about way and haven't ever got an answer before...but what does Owing's bat do to this ERA. Is it worth .50?


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