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Thread: Willy Taveras - 2009 to date

  1. #16
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    They are (He is) who we thought they (he) were (is). Except with no steals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


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  3. #17
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    It just means there is gonna be a lot of Votto and Bruce solo Hrs this season.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  4. #18
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    It is definitely his approach that has waned. Earlier in the season he was taking borderline strikes early in the count, now he's swinging at those same pitches. And BP's approach has also faltered, Bruce has been back and forth but mostly back.
    Guys typically don't reinvent themselves at age 26 and 27 concerning something as significant as approach. I'm very skeptical that they can turn it on and off.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #19
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    And it really is not fair to use park adjusted numbers for him, since he does not benefit from the homer friendly GABP in any way.
    Looks like it's now fair to park adjust Taveras.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  6. #20
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    I will be working on an addendum to my original post. I failed to explore the power aspects of Willy's game. I will be sharing my research on our newest power hitter later this evening after the shock and awe subsides.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  7. #21
    Man Pills
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Looks like it's now fair to park adjust Taveras.
    He's going to hit more than one or two in the easiest homer park in baseball.

  8. #22
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Guys typically don't reinvent themselves at age 26 and 27 concerning something as significant as approach. I'm very skeptical that they can turn it on and off.
    Say what? That's an odd notion. Perhaps we have different views of what approach encompasses.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  9. #23
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Say what? That's an odd notion. Perhaps we have different views of what approach encompasses.
    A guy with historically poor plate discipline doesn't suddenly become Keith Hernandez at age 27.

    A contact deficient guy doesn't suddenly become Keppinger.

    Basically at 27, you're what ya are with perhaps room for some minor tweaks. I'm sure there are historic exceptions but exceptions shouldn't be planned for...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  10. #24
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

    That isn't to say I like the Taveras signing or that this type of player is my cup of tea. Its just that so far, he isn't nearly as bad as I expected. M2 had it right. He's a bench player with a starting job and his type is a dime a dozen. He's Darnell McDonald or Norris Hopper who gets over-valued in the fantasy baseball era where his stolen bases seem to count for more than they really do when it comes to winning actual baseball games.

    I will say this - So far this season, the Reds have had worse problems.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. #25
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    A guy with historically poor plate discipline doesn't suddenly become Keith Hernandez at age 27.

    A contact deficient guy doesn't suddenly become Keppinger.

    Basically at 27, you're what ya are with perhaps room for some minor tweaks. I'm sure there are historic exceptions but exceptions shouldn't be planned for...
    Well I guess I get what you are saying but frankly I still don't believe that completely. Certainly overall that seems to be true but I think that just the simple fact that a player can show it at all proves he is capable of changing, but something has to be said to him or done to make him decide to change it. They may not take a whole lot more walks as a result but being more selective they improve their entire game all around marginally or maybe a little better. Or yes they improve selectivity as they get older it just doesn't show up as a high increase in BB's alone it's spread to improve OPS overall.

    However the comment I made was that his approach did change, he was being patient, taking BB's and being more selective overall. And that has changed since early in the season.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 05-07-2009 at 10:24 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  12. #26
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I'm actually pleasantly surprised.

    That isn't to say I like the Taveras signing or that this type of player is my cup of tea. Its just that so far, he isn't nearly as bad as I expected. M2 had it right. He's a bench player with a starting job and his type is a dime a dozen. He's Darnell McDonald or Norris Hopper who gets over-valued in the fantasy baseball era where his stolen bases seem to count for more than they really do when it comes to winning actual baseball games.

    I will say this - So far this season, the Reds have had worse problems.
    Surprised by what? he is exactly what the back of his baseball card says.

    And really, that isn't something the Reds should have coveted.

    Nice game tonight though.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Surprised by what? he is exactly what the back of his baseball card says.

    And really, that isn't something the Reds should have coveted.

    Nice game tonight though.
    I expected him to be worse. .300 OBP tops. His OBP isn't great, but he's been on base every game. I envisioned stretches where he'd go an entire week without getting on. I still think we'll see that.
    Last edited by mth123; 05-07-2009 at 10:47 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #28
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Surprised by what? he is exactly what the back of his baseball card says.

    And really, that isn't something the Reds should have coveted.

    Nice game tonight though.
    Can't speak for anyone else, but I thought that there was no way he could come close to his career numbers. I thought, and still think that two years ago was an anomaly, and last year was closer to representing his talent level.

    Guys with SLG as low as his get attacked by the pitcher. Why nibble when the worst that could happen is a single or maybe a speed driven double? This leads to few walks, and a low OBP.

    Based on his numbers, he looked like a punch and judy hitter, but even before tonight's homer, he has shown me that he hits the ball with authority. He simply is not big or strong enough to get many homers, but he still hits the ball hard enough that pitchers need to be careful with him, which should drive up his OBP higher than I expected.

    His size, combined with an approach to pound the ball into the ground will still leave him with a very low SLG, however.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish he was not the CF, leadoff hitter for this team. Completely agree that he isn't something that the Reds should have coveted. I am just surprisingly impressed with what I have seen, now that he is here.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  15. #29
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNext44 View Post
    Can't speak for anyone else, but I thought that there was no way he could come close to his career numbers. I thought, and still think that two years ago was an anomaly, and last year was closer to representing his talent level.

    Guys with SLG as low as his get attacked by the pitcher. Why nibble when the worst that could happen is a single or maybe a speed driven double? This leads to few walks, and a low OBP.

    Based on his numbers, he looked like a punch and judy hitter, but even before tonight's homer, he has shown me that he hits the ball with authority. He simply is not big or strong enough to get many homers, but he still hits the ball hard enough that pitchers need to be careful with him, which should drive up his OBP higher than I expected.

    His size, combined with an approach to pound the ball into the ground will still leave him with a very low SLG, however.

    Don't get me wrong, I wish he was not the CF, leadoff hitter for this team. Completely agree that he isn't something that the Reds should have coveted. I am just surprisingly impressed with what I have seen, now that he is here.
    Nobody has to be careful with or fearful of a guy with a .358 SLG.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #30
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras - One Month In

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Nobody has to be careful with or fearful of a guy with a .358 SLG.
    He is a leadoff hitter. SLG is one of the last things I would look at in order to determine his value.


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