Willy Taveras - 2009 to date

[Homer Bailey]

You have to think that WT won't be in CF tonight, as the Reds are facing a righty and will be facing lefties this weekend, but I'm sure the guy calling the shots will come up with some Dustification as to why WT will be starting and leading off and handing the Sox 4-5 outs.

[TheNext44]

If Dusty continues to bat WT and AG at 1-2, there is no way this offense is going to be able to produce enough runs to stay above .500.

I think the lack of Votto has much more to do with the team losing ways and once he gets back, the offense will be fine, no matter who is hitting where.

In fact I'd wager with you or anyone that the Reds gain at least .25 runs a game when Votto comes back. I also will wager that if Taveras and Gonzalez stay at 1-2 in the lineup, the Reds will stay above .500 for the rest of the season. Not because they will do much better than they have, but because it really is not as big a deal as some people are making it to be.

[Degenerate39]

No offense WV, but you sure seem to put in a dig for Bruce in a large majority of your posts.

If Bruce's average doesn't improve in the next few years then you'll be seeing that alot from Reds fans. There's not a doubt in my mind if he hits .240 while putting up good power numbers then there will be a good number of fans that turn on him. We've seen it happen a couple of times before.

[traderumor]

If Bruce's average doesn't improve in the next few years then you'll be seeing that alot from Reds fans. There's not a doubt in my mind if he hits .240 while putting up good power numbers then there will be a good number of fans that turn on him. We've seen it happen a couple of times before.

I think that combination is very unlikely. Bruce is not a hit or miss style of slugger.

[TheNext44]

So start some interesting new threads and we can talk about that instead.

I guarantee you that if I started a thread about how our starting pitching has improved, eventually it would deteriorate into a Taveras bashing thread. At least right now. These movements on all message boards have a mind of their own, and can not be controlled.

Edit: I see that membengal has started a nice thread on the Reds pitching. I will predict that eventually someone will mention Taveras, or it won't go to a second page.

[edabbs44]

I've found that posts arguing for/against "many," "all of Redszone," "the board" and such typically make hyperbolic strawman arguments. As such, there's not much point replying to them because the posters of these comments are more interested in "I told you so-ism" or some other sort of virtual chest thumping than engaging in conversation. This I know because people who are interested in having conversation engage at an individual level, discuss the merits of an argument and don't resort to creating a caricature of an opposing opinion.

Again, instead of complaining that no one's talking about what you want to talk about, consider using the "New Post" button. I mean, you have ideas for three new threads there, why not give it a try?

I try to not start negative posts on guys and, to be honest, my posting hasn't been too frequent as of late. I'm not sure if it has been the new additions to my family or the overall negative vibe of the board or just the same old stuff being regurgitated.

[Homer Bailey]

I think the lack of Votto has much more to do with the team losing ways and once he gets back, the offense will be fine, no matter who is hitting where.

In fact I'd wager with you or anyone that the Reds gain at least .25 runs a game when Votto comes back. I also will wager that if Taveras and Gonzalez stay at 1-2 in the lineup, the Reds will stay above .500 for the rest of the season. Not because they will do much better than they have, but because it really is not as big a deal as some people are making it to be.

It will be a very big deal when there is no one there for Votto to drive in but himself. I'll gladly wager that the Reds will be below .500 in all games in which Taveras and Gonzo bat 1-2.

As far as the first proposal, I'm not sure how to make that wager. Do you base the .25 increase on the rpg during the time Votto was out? Or on the season as a whole. If you're saying a .25 increase over this last stint, one would think the Reds RPG would increase .25 per game over the course of the season even without Votto. The offense has been way below average, and I know it is better than they are currently showing.

Disclaimer: I'm talking about a friendly wager, not monetary.

[nate]

I try to not start negative posts on guys and, to be honest, my posting hasn't been too frequent as of late. I'm not sure if it has been the new additions to my family or the overall negative vibe of the board or just the same old stuff being regurgitated.

Congrats on the new additions! Consider starting a thread about the correlation between the number of people in your home and the Reds winning percentage!

[RichRed]

I guarantee you that if I started a thread about how our starting pitching has improved, eventually it would deteriorate into a Taveras bashing thread. At least right now. These movements on all message boards have a mind of their own, and can not be controlled.

The mods generally do a good job of nipping that sort of thing in the bud. Give it a shot and see what happens!

[TheNext44]

It will be a very big deal when there is no one there for Votto to drive in but himself. I'll gladly wager that the Reds will be below .500 in all games in which Taveras and Gonzo bat 1-2.

As far as the first proposal, I'm not sure how to make that wager. Do you base the .25 increase on the rpg during the time Votto was out? Or on the season as a whole. If you're saying a .25 increase over this last stint, one would think the Reds RPG would increase .25 per game over the course of the season even without Votto. The offense has been way below average, and I know it is better than they are currently showing.

Disclaimer: I'm talking about a friendly wager, not monetary.

I am not sure how many more games they will bat 1-2, which is why I was willing to make the bet that if they did continue to bat 1-2 for the rest of the season, the Reds would finish above .500. If they are batting 1-2 and the team continues to lose, even Dusty will change that up. However much you disagree with him, he hates losing.

As for the other wager, I'll bet that the Reds RPG will go from 4.2, where it is now, to at least 4.45 by the end of the season, assuming Votto returns shortly and stays in the lineup all season.

And winner gets to pick the losers signature for a week.

Sound good?

[GOYA]

The list of Reds batters' sub-.200 AVGs for June is way too long to single out WT. On most clubs, the manager would be fired if a teamwide "slump" keeps up for long. That is whether or not the team is actually underachieving or is simply bad. But I don't get the feeling that Dusty's job is in jeopardy. I believe nothing will happen until well after Votto has returned in the hopes that "hitting is contagious."

In recent history, this club has operated in a way that doesn't make a lot of sense. For example, waiting so long to call up Hanigan last year while Bako was struggling so badly. One would think that Jocketty is responsible for those kinds of decisions but Dusty may have a hand in it too. But it's plain that Dusty doesn't always use our best 8 when making his lineup card. Replacing him may not be the cure-all that this team needs, but it sure couldn't hurt. He doesn't give the team anything that the average manager could give it.

So, file this post with the 10,000 other "Fire Dusty" posts.

and BTW, I'm guessing there will be roster moves next week. Just a hunch.

[princeton]

The list of Reds batters' sub-.200 AVGs for June is way too long to single out WT.

how is the sub-.050 list?

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I was all for keeping Pete Mackanin. I think he would have been the perfect fit for this young club on the rise.

Plus he would have saved the organization $9M and many frustrating nights. Would have saved some bandwidth on the RedsZone as well.

[Patrick Bateman]

I try to not start negative posts on guys and, to be honest, my posting hasn't been too frequent as of late. I'm not sure if it has been the new additions to my family or the overall negative vibe of the board or just the same old stuff being regurgitated.

Ya, I've missed arguing with you around here ed, but I have been an infrequent poster too. Congrats on the new family members

RE: Taveras and Giles, I think you are right that there would be less of an outcry over Giles' production, but I think it would be fair to say that Giles' lack of production has been much more surprising than Taveras'. Part of the outcry about Taveras was the decision to give the dude consistent at-bats in the lead-off hole when it was fairly obvious that the guy had no business being put in that position, and hence there's a lot of frustration over that. If it were Giles, I think most people would be surprised about his problems considering his great track record, meaning that the problem wasn't as preventable, and that he would have deserved a decent amount of time to work through his problems.

[GOYA]

how is the sub-.050 list?

One player too long.

Imagine if Taveras was up with the big boys, hitting .250. How would you like our chances to reach post-season play? Finish over .500?