Willy Taveras - 2009 to date

[TheNext44]

I would wait until the end of the year to hand out the award for worst free agent signings. We aren't even at the All-Star break.

Renteria could turn his season around (not so sure about Taveras). Renteria's line drive rate is the same it's been his whole career, but his BABIP is down around 30 points. Not saying he will, but one could argue that he is due for a positive correction.

Milton Bradley's line drive is way down from last year, and his GB rate is up. I could see him ending up with worse numbers than Renteria.

Still, doesn't take much research to conclude that Taveras signing was not the best move.

[flyer85]

and still marvel at the idea of paying a man with a career slugging average of .337 $6.25 million for two years. Always inept at the plate ...

[mbgrayson]

From BP's weekly Hit List, this is this week's note on the Reds:

Can't Stop the Bleeding: The Reds slide below .500 and into fourth place in the NL Central thanks to Dusty Baker's stubborn insistence upon keeping Willy Taveras not only in the lineup but also in the leadoff spot. Taveras is just 4-for-54 in June without a walk or an extra-base hit, and as Geoff Young points out, his slump actually goes back to May 15; he's now at .104/.128/.113 in 111 PA since then. In an unrelated story, the Reds are averaging just 3.8 runs per game since May 15, the league's third-lowest rate. Late note: In the exception that proves the rule, Taveras goes 3-for-5 with a double.

[Mario-Rijo]

I was going to post about this somewhere back (or maybe I already did? The Willy T saga has numbed me).

I think this is clearly a case of Walt being used to working with coaches/managers who he can trust. He took Quirk (and I suspect Dusty) at his word that he could "fix" Willy. Walt is used to LaGenious, who seems to be able to squeeze 10lbs out of the 5lbs sack from nearly every player. Also there's Duncan who obviously sold his soul to the Devil to be able to make viable pitchers out of some of the wrecks that have come through that team.

I'm not saying Walt had nothing to do with the decision, but I think the decision was driven by the ineptitude of the coaches & manager rather than the ineptitude of the GM.

Now, the 2 year deal.....Walt's got nobody to blame but himself for that.

I don't disagree with most of this, Dusty and Quirk definitely have to take some level of responsibility for this debacle. That said Walt as a GM should have some degree of ability in evaluating talent and ultimately it's his responsibility to smack the hands of his children and say "put that back it's bad for you". And IMO he simply doesn't have the neccessary skills to evaluate talent if he couldn't see this coming. Of course I am biased because I have thought that before the arrival of Taveras was even a thought.

[edabbs44]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...eeagent.busts/


Renteria, Taveras head the list of biggest free-agent busts of 2009

I think people are trying too hard to "prove" how bad of a FA signing Taveras was. Was it a poor signing? Looks that way...however, it shouldn't even be in the running due to the terms of the deal. $6MM over two years isn't the end of the world. Hell, we gave Stanton similar money and he was completely useless in any capacity. At least Whiskey Tango could provide minimal value to the team if utilized correctly.

I guarantee the Cubs would deal Bradley for him right now. And the Mets would do the same with Perez.

The signing isn't the worst part of the deal. It's the stubborness of continuing to play him and, worse than that, hitting him leadoff.

[flyer85]

I think people are trying too hard to "prove" how bad of a FA signing Taveras was. Was it a poor signing? Looks that way...however, it shouldn't even be in the running due to the terms of the deal. $6MM over two years isn't the end of the world. Hell, we gave Stanton similar money and he was completely useless in any capacity. At least Whiskey Tango could provide minimal value to the team if utilized correctly.

I guarantee the Cubs would deal Bradley for him right now. And the Mets would do the same with Perez.

The signing isn't the worst part of the deal. It's the stubborness of continuing to play him and, worse than that, hitting him leadoff.

reviewing other teams dumb moves doesn't make me feel any better about the ones that Reds made that weren't as costly from a monetary perspective.

[edabbs44]

reviewing other teams dumb moves doesn't make me feel any better about the ones that Reds made that weren't as costly from a monetary perspective.

Was just commenting on the article.

[flyer85]

Was just commenting on the article.

although it does confirm that a lot of GMs out there aren't all that good.

[HokieRed]

Probably should get your last bashing in because WT is quickly on his way, even for the Dusty, to becoming the 5th outfielder. And there's not a lot of fun in bashing 5th outfielders, no matter how bad they are.

[Tony Cloninger]

I do not buy it for a 2nd that he will sit him.... this is just a slump to Dusty... a real bad one.

He saw Garvey go 0 for 27 in 1978....he figures he will snap out of it. Not kidding here.

[TRF]

WT sits, CD goes 2-4. Yeah it could be a game by game update, but that isn't the point. A blind man can see that Dickerson is the man for the job. Somebody get Dusty some glasses.

[TheNext44]

WT sits, CD goes 2-4. Yeah it could be a game by game update, but that isn't the point. A blind man can see that Dickerson is the man for the job. Somebody get Dusty some glasses.

You are correct, it is clear, looking at all the evidence available, that Dickerson should start over Taveras. But going game by game can be dangerous.

FWIW,

Taveras - last 7 games

.367 .367 .467 .834

Dickerson

.304 .360 .435 .795

I think the real point is that Dickerson has shown this past month, that he can handle starting in CF, both offensively and defensively. Since May 26th, Dickerson has done this:

.338 .393 .450 .843

And has played better than expected in CF.

It really is a no brainer right now.

[flyer85]

It really is a no brainer right now.

be careful what you say about Dusty

[SirFelixCat]

You are correct, it is clear, looking at all the evidence available, that Dickerson should start over Taveras. But going game by game can be dangerous.

FWIW,

Taveras - last 7 games

.367 .367 .467 .834

Dickerson

.304 .360 .435 .795

I think the real point is that Dickerson has shown this past month, that he can handle starting in CF, both offensively and defensively. Since May 26th, Dickerson has done this:

.338 .393 .450 .843

And has played better than expected in CF.

It really is a no brainer right now.

Let me preface by saying that I agree 100% and that Dickerson, for the love of all that is good and holy, should be our starting CF'er!


But, he seems overmatched vs most lefties, no? Just saying that, for instance, I would have liked to have seen, *gasp*, WT pinch hit for him last night in the 7th or 8th inning vs the C-Backs tough lefty. CD looked pretty atrocious in that ab.

Then again, it could be small sample size and he just needs to face more lefties, but his minor league splits don't indicate he'll all of a sudden come around to knocking lefties around.


Thoughts of a platoon in CF (I guess WT vs lefties?..i dunno)? Again, I don't know if he should platoon or not, just asking.

[TRF]

Let me preface by saying that I agree 100% and that Dickerson, for the love of all that is good and holy, should be our starting CF'er!


But, he seems overmatched vs most lefties, no? Just saying that, for instance, I would have liked to have seen, *gasp*, WT pinch hit for him last night in the 7th or 8th inning vs the C-Backs tough lefty. CD looked pretty atrocious in that ab.

Then again, it could be small sample size and he just needs to face more lefties, but his minor league splits don't indicate he'll all of a sudden come around to knocking lefties around.


Thoughts of a platoon in CF (I guess WT vs lefties?..i dunno)? Again, I don't know if he should platoon or not, just asking.

23 AB's against LH pitching this year and he still has a .333 OBP against them in limited and highly sporadic appearances.

I'll take CD over WT in EVERY situation.

Here are the splits vs LH's

Taveras: 66 AB's .227 .268 .288 .556

Dickerson: 23 AB's .227 .333 .273 .606

I believe that since CD is light years better than WT vs RH's that his numbers vs LH's would naturally creep up to at least .700 OPS with regular PT against them.