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Thread: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

  1. #601
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I think it is disingenuous to say that you had a better perspective with a distorted view on a TV camera, esp. with the closeness of those pitches. Joyce had a tight strike zone, and front door fastballs aren't going to called much with that mindset. Plus, he appeared to be very inconsistent, which is all anyone asks of a plate ump, even if his zone is bad. But then, I'm making the same conclusions from the same angles that you are watching from, so I'll take the reactions of both teams and the announcers behind the plate as having better perspectives than TV viewers.
    There simply weren't a plethora of obviously bad calls by Joyce in the 8th that cost the Reds the game.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #602
    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I've just watched Weathers' 8th inning again several times. I don't think he has any legit gripe about the Macias PA.

    First pitch: no doubt a ball.

    Second pitch: Joyce gives DW the pitch on the outside corner

    Third pitch: again, another close pitch on the outside corner that Joyce gives the DW

    Fourth pitch: ball, looked high and inside to me.

    Fifth pitch: close but looked inside to me. I don't see how DW could argue he was hosed.


    Sixth pitch: close but again it looked low and inside to me.

    I just don't see how it could be argued that the called balls to Macias were obvious mistaken calls that by rights should've went to DW. Also, Joyce wasn't squeezing Weathers either because DW got both the 2nd and third pitches which were borderline on the outside IMHO.
    I was at the game, sitting behind home plate, seven rows up.

    The problem with Joyce was not that he was "tight", but that he was very inconsistent. Throughout the whole game, Padres fans in my section were screaming at him for not being consistent. I kept hearing things like "that was a strike two pitches ago." I was thinking the same thing, and this was way before the 8th.

    I think your pitch by pitch analysis demonstrates this, as there were some borderline calls he gave to Weathers and some he did not. That has to be frustrating to a pitcher in a tight situation, to not know where the ump's strike zone is.

    Regardless, you are 100% about Cordero. That was the highest leverage situation the Reds would be in all game, that is when you use your best pitcher, especially when he is a high K guy.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

  4. #603
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    There simply weren't a plethora of obviously bad calls by Joyce in the 8th that cost the Reds the game.
    Which I never said there was. There were two close pitches that Weathers gets a lot of his K's from the front door fastball that could/should have been called. Both pitches led to a game tying, bases loaded walk. Of course, Cordero could have blown it in the ninth, but he never got the chance. That was a crappy plate last night, that is all I am saying. I don't get into this or that lost the game, but obviously getting one of those would have kept the Reds ahead with one to go. They had several more chances to get a run and didn't. Sometimes, its ok to refer to another force besides the Reds own incompetence influencing outcomes.

  5. #604
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Which I never said there was. There were two close pitches that Weathers gets a lot of his K's from the front door fastball that could/should have been called. Both pitches led to a game tying, bases loaded walk. Of course, Cordero could have blown it in the ninth, but he never got the chance. That was a crappy plate last night, that is all I am saying. I don't get into this or that lost the game, but obviously getting one of those would have kept the Reds ahead with one to go. They had several more chances to get a run and didn't. Sometimes, its ok to refer to another force besides the Reds own incompetence influencing outcomes.
    I'm confused. It's not the ump's fault but it kinda was?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #605
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    I'm confused. It's not the ump's fault but it kinda was?
    Apparently, if that is what you got out of my comments. You absolve Joyce completely. Fine, different conclusions, same data.

  7. #606
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 5/16/09 Reds vs Padres

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Apparently, if that is what you got out of my comments. You absolve Joyce completely. Fine, different conclusions, same data.
    I'm saying that Weathers wasn't done in by a call that was obviously wrong.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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