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Thread: Did Dusty learn anything?

  1. #1
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    Did Dusty learn anything?

    OK, once again, we go to San Diego and have an extra inning game where Dusty is forced to use one of his starting pitchers as a reliever for an extended stint. The question is, did Dusty learn anything from last year when he did it with Harang and ruined him for rest of year?

    As the rotation currently falls, we'd see Arroyo today, Owings Tuesday in PHI and Cueto Wednesday. Do you think we'll see Owings on Tuesday? Do we skip over him for a turn and run Cueto out there, moving everyone up a day (not too bad with off day in there Monday)? Do we simply swap Cueto and Owings giving Micah another day's rest, but leave everyone else on the same schedule? Do we do something else entirely, like bring Homer up to start a game in his place?

    What would you do if you were Dusty?

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    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    I guess they'll have to put Masset on the DL and bring Homer up. I wish San Diego would just go to the AL or something so the Reds wouldn't play them anymore. Nothing good comes from playing them.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    This has been mentioned elsewhere, but Dusty had made clear that Owings would be available in a relief role since his spot was being skipped.
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    1. Not a fan of skipping the #5 when he's pitching well. Give everybody an extra day.

    2. Carry a long man in the pen. If it's Masset, use him as one. If it's someone else, get him on the roster.

    3. Owings shouldn't be throwing another full game on 3 days' rest. He's coming off a year with a bad shoulder.

    4. Why hasn't Masset been disabled? What is with this team's aversion to using the disabled list? By my count, that makes at least 2 games in which the manager's hands were tied by having a short roster.
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    Dusty did exactly the right thing last night.

    This was very different from last year with Harang.

    He took a pitcher on three days' rest and gave him, essentially, a starting game during the relief innings.

    He didn't use any starter on two days rest like last year.

    Now, Dusty needs to pitch Owings only after a full four days rest. He has an off-day Monday, he can do this. Last year the Harang thing would have been OK if Dusty adjusted the rotation to give him more rest after the SD outing.

    I don't like keeping a designated long man because he seldom pitches and most nights you have only an 11 man staff. I do believe in relievers who can throw 3 innings if necessary. Massett can do that.

    I don't agree with waiting before DL'ing Massett. The Reds should have had another reliever last night, but likely would have had to use Owings anyway.

    Now the Reds definitely need to bring in some reinforcements from AAA.

    My one criticism isn't about Dusty. It's that the Rhodes/Weathers eighth inning tandem hasn't been effective lately. Particularly Weathers. But last night I saw Weathers' inning and he was squeezed to the point where it was justs about impossible for him to pitch effectively.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-17-2009 at 09:26 AM.

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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    We can skip Owings, and everyone will get 4 days rest before their next start. Not a big deal.

  8. #7
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    My issue is not that he brought Owings in it is that he stuck with him long after it was obvious to everyone that he was running out of gas. I'd rather watch Cordero blow it in one inning of a non save situation than watch Owings arm fall off. After Cordero you could have always gone to Janish if need be.

  9. #8
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    I'd rather watch Cordero save Weathers' bacon in the 8th.... This one should've belonged the the Reds long before Owings.
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake View Post
    My issue is not that he brought Owings in it is that he stuck with him long after it was obvious to everyone that he was running out of gas. I'd rather watch Cordero blow it in one inning of a non save situation than watch Owings arm fall off. After Cordero you could have always gone to Janish if need be.
    I see that folks said this on the game thread. I disagree, I would have handled it as Dusty did.

    What if you pull Owings, then Cordero pitches two good innings? Then you start parading position players. First Janish. If still tied, do you throw Ryan Hanigan at that point? Maybe Hairston gets an inning. That's not the way to manage a competitive baseball game.

    It's not a joke asking regular players to pitch during competitive games. It's an invitation to injury and also comes very near forfeit. The Reds players would not be happy with the team throwing position players in a competitive game. These guys played a bunch of competitive innings, you don't basically forfeit the game by pitching position players in that spot.

    Dusty handled it correctly. Owings didn't throw 120 pitches, it was a normal starting outing on three days rest. Why is that a problem?

    Only thing they need to do is have the rotation set up now as Arroyo, day off, Cueto, Harang. Then, either Volquez or Owings on Thursday depending on Volquez health. Either would have four days off. Neither Volquez nor Owings should pitch before Thursday.
    Last edited by Kc61; 05-17-2009 at 09:39 AM.

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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    If you watched the game last night you would know that number 1 Weathers threw pretty well. The ump was HORRIBLE. I counted at least 3 times Weathers put someone away only to get the pitch called a ball. His pitches had some really good late movement on them that the ump just wasn't seeing. Also, I have no idea how Dusty could have done this any different. He had already stated that Micah would be used out of the bullpen in the long roll. If he brings him back to pitch on 2 or 3 days rest we have a problem but right now I would say YES Dusty learned something.
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    Never say Nevermore marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    Or what's worse, instead of sending out position players they could have ended up with a situation like Volquez was put into last year.

    No problem with the way Owings was used last night/this morning.
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    In my opinion, Owings should be pitching on normal/extra rest, like the rest of the rotation, and there should have been a long man in the pen for the disabled Masset. That's roster management and some of that falls on Jocketty.

    The night before, Baker said he needed to find a way to get Cordero and Weathers more work. Yet, no Cordero last night.

    Starting with the San Diego game last year, I have been suspicious of Baker's (and Pole's) ability to manage a staff. I think this shows up quickly when they hit irregularities -- long games, injuries. I don't like the lack of a long man, the predilection for skipping Owings, the sequestering of save chances for 1 pitcher and 1 pitcher only, and the lock-step usage of Rhodes-Weathers-Cordero in games in which the Reds are ahead. Roles are good -- very good -- but they needn't be adhered to 100% of the time over a 162 game schedule, because teams run hot and cold and end up playing ahead a lot for stretches at a time, and behind in stretches. There needs to be a bit more flexibility and foresight. It seems to me Baker locks into a strategy for managing his staff and then stops thinking about it.

    I know all this sounds like whining given the huge leap forward this staff has made as a whole. But I still wonder how well they're going to hold up over the course of the long season. 126 games to go.
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  14. #13
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    There is no way that I can blame Dusty for last night's loss. He used the bullpen just as he should have. I hear people complain but rarely, if ever, do I hear a solution. Your long guy is hurt and Owings is your best option. He pitched well until he got tired. Ok, well he's human after all. If you're going to blame anyone, blame the offense for not doing their job to win the game. In case anyone hasn't noticed...baseball is not an exact science and losses do occur despite your best effort.
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    I was thrilled to see Owings was used as he was last night.

    I went to be after 9.....apparently 3 innings later than the Reds bats did. How do you go 10 scoreless innings against that bullpen with 2 hits?
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    Re: Did Dusty learn anything?

    How do you go 10 scoreless innings against that bullpen with 2 hits?
    I think some guys are dragging. Baker talks about interchangeable parts, but he doesn't really manage that way.
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