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Thread: The Fantasy Trade Veto

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  1. #1
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    The Fantasy Trade Veto

    When is it proper to do it?
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Lets make this a poll: collusion or fairness?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Member Stephenk29's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    When a guy is in the cellar and simply doesn't care any more = often
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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    The veto rule was instituted as a means of preventing collusion in leagues without a commissioner.

    In free Internet leagues it is frequently abused by dishonest players to void trades that might help their opponents.

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    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    In free leagues it usually takes a good percentage 4 or more, to veto a trade. I'll make the arguement that in a free league, half the teams don't care enough to veto. If that many are against a trade, there's usually a reason for it beyond not wanting a good team to get better. It's a case-by-case basis.

    In the case that Atomic is bringing up, the deal that got vetoed was:

    Team A trades: Albert Pujols and Roy Oswalt

    Team B trades: Chris Iannetta, Brad Lidge and Johnny Cueto

    It's a 12-team, NL-only, Dynasty League
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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    In free leagues it usually takes a good percentage 4 or more, to veto a trade. I'll make the arguement that in a free league, half the teams don't care enough to veto. If that many are against a trade, there's usually a reason for it beyond not wanting a good team to get better. It's a case-by-case basis.

    In the case that Atomic is bringing up, the deal that got vetoed was:

    Team A trades: Albert Pujols and Roy Oswalt

    Team B trades: Chris Iannetta, Brad Lidge and Johnny Cueto

    It's a 12-team, NL-only, Dynasty League
    You were one of the selfish people that voted against the trade. :thumbdown

    Some people just can't stand it when one of their opponents improves their team. If you can abuse the system to interfere with my team then don't let your integrity get in the way.

  7. #7
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    It's a 12-team, NL-only, Dynasty League
    It is a 10 team NL-only league with 27-man rosters plus 2 DL slots and 19 starting positions .

    What this means is that every starting player in the National League is taken and so are almost all the bench players. Most of our teams have several prospects and minor leaguers as well. So if your team has a hole created by an injury for example, you may have to scramble just to find a warm body to put in your lineup. You can't just go to the free agent list and find someone to replace an injured player. The free agent list is completely barren and any prospect with any hope of becoming a good player is also taken. Some of our teams are forced to put part-time players and pinch-hitters in our starting lineups just to try and salvage any production at all.

    This situation makes any good player a valuable commodity -- especially catchers and closers. Young guys are highly preferable to older players because this is a long term league.

    Sometimes you can greatly improve your team by overpaying for a particular player or group of players. For example, due to Jeff Kent's retirement I was left without a second baseman on my roster this year. There were no starting second basemen available as free agents of course. So I was forced to overpay just to fill out my lineup. I had to give up Brad Hawpe and Casey Kotchman to obtain Dan Uggla. Hawpe and Kotchman are both out-producing Uggla by a wide margin, but otherwise I would have a vacancy at 2B.

    Similarly, you can fill a group of positions with good players by trading a star player.

    In an effort to balance my pitching-rich, hitting-poor team I offered Johan Santana for Albert Pujols of the New York Knights -- a hitting-rich, pitching poor team the exact opposite of mine. Knights declined that offer and countered with Pujols and rapidly deteriorating Roy Oswalt for young ace Johnny Cueto, a good hitting young catcher in Chris Iannetta and a proven stud closer in Brad Lidge. I accepted the deal. It helps both teams a lot by filling holes and balancing out lopsided teams.

    I was excited by the deal because I enjoy making trades. It is one of the best aspects of fantasy sports. But the thrill was soon ruined when some competitors realized the trade significantly improved both my team and Knights' team. Why not veto the trade to prevent us from moving up in the ranks!

    And that is how leagues quickly fall apart.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    It's a 10 team league.

    NJReds, I think you should clarify whether or not you vetoed the trade, and if so, give us your reasoning...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    It's a 10 team league.

    NJReds, I think you should clarify whether or not you vetoed the trade, and if so, give us your reasoning...

    This is what NJ Red Machine said after GOnaDs whined about the trade:

    "That is a strange deal. I with you."

    I took that to mean he was vetoing also.

    This is a league where all the players are from Redszone. So you can't get away with anonymously doing things detrimental to the league. This is what sets the league apart from random Yahoo leagues with total strangers. When we started the league we hoped to avoid the types of shenanigans that occur in the random leagues by having a commissioner and a group of adult players that would feel some social responsibility to their "friends" from Redszone.

    When two owners come to an agreement to make a trade you do not have the right to nullify the trade unless it can be shown those owners were colluding or conspiring to cheat.

    Non-participants in a trade don't know the reasons the trade was made. Everybody has different strategies and ideas of a player's value, especially in a dynasty league.

    This league seemed great when we first began. But then some owners quit paying attention early last season and half the owners dropped out after last year. A dynasty league must have continuity from season-to-season or it will quickly fail. The league has some major flaws and a lack of leadership and has devolved into something a few of us have already expressed an interest in leaving. A group of core owners might spin off into a new edition of the league next year and populate the league with other owners that share our vision of what a competitive, friendly, long-term dynasty league should be.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 05-22-2009 at 03:56 PM.

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    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    This is what NJ Red Machine said after GOnaDs whined about the trade:

    "That is a strange deal. I with you."

    I took that to mean he was vetoing also.

    This is a league where all the players are from Redszone. So you can't get away with anonymously doing things detrimental to the league. This is what sets the league apart from random Yahoo leagues with total strangers. When we started the league we hoped to avoid the types of shenanigans that occur in the random leagues by having a commissioner and a group of adult players that would feel some social responsibility to their "friends" from Redszone.

    When two owners come to an agreement to make a trade you do not have the right to nullify the trade unless it can be shown those owners were colluding or conspiring to cheat.

    Non-participants in a trade don't know the reasons the trade was made. Everybody has different strategies and ideas of a player's value, especially in a dynasty league.

    This league seemed great when we first began. But then some owners quit paying attention early last season and half the owners dropped out after last year. A dynasty league must have continuity from season-to-season or it will quickly fail. The league has some major flaws and a lack of leadership and has devolved into something a few of us have already expressed an interest in leaving. A group of core owners might spin off into a new edition of the league next year and populate the league with other owners that share our vision of what a competitive, friendly, long-term dynasty league should be.
    Just curious, but why is your definition the only standard that a member may apply when exercising his veto power?
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  11. #11
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Just curious, but why is your definition the only standard that a member may apply when exercising his veto power?
    It isn't. That is the standard of fantasy leagues for decades though.

    Teenagers and people new to fantasy sports don't realize the history of collusion that caused Yahoo to institute the veto process. They think the veto is an opportunity to prevent someone from gaining an edge, and that is where the problem begins.

    Most people will pretend their reason for vetoing a trade was to valiantly come to the defense of a poor, foolish newbie that was taken advantage of by someone else. In reality they are just protecting their own interests.

    There are no foolish newbies in our league. There are some dishonest people apparently.

    The veto was instituted to prevent collusion in leagues without a commissioner. Most Yahoo leagues don't have commissioners. As a veteran of fantasy sports for about 20 years I have seen plenty of collusion. I have not seen any collusion in a Redszone league yet, but I have seen people try to prevent trades from happening. Vetoing has ruined more leagues than collusion in my experience. The best solution is a strong, fair, trustworthy commissioner.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    Just curious, but why is your definition the only standard that a member may apply when exercising his veto power?
    It's what the veto is for. It's kinda like how the fire alarm is in case of a fire, not because you didn't study for exams or don't feel like working...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  13. #13
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    It's what the veto is for. It's kinda like how the fire alarm is in case of a fire, not because you didn't study for exams or don't feel like working...
    That is a perfect explanation.

  14. #14
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    NJReds, I think you should clarify whether or not you vetoed the trade, and if so, give us your reasoning...
    Crap. I just spent 5 minutes writing a reply, lost my Internet connection, and lost my response.

    In any event, the abridged version:

    - Yes I was one of at least four, including the guy who made the deal, to veto it.

    - No, I'm not a selfish owner or a teenager. I joined the league this year and took over the worst roster available. I'm not winning this year or, most likely next.

    - I don't think the veto is only for the most extreme cases. In this case, I thought Cueto, Iannetta and Lidge was an extremely light return for Pujols, who is in his prime and will most likely never be dealt to the AL. If it was Pujols for Santana, I wouldn't have thought twice about it.

    - I had a deal questioned in a Redszone league. Instead of namecalling and threatening to quit, I explained why I thought it was fair and let the chips fall.

    - If the league owners don't want the veto, get rid of it and let the Commish decide on deals. If he's fine with this deal, let him override the veto. We haven't heard from him on this case. I'd be interested to hear his take.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: The Fantasy Trade Veto

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    - If the league owners don't want the veto, get rid of it and let the Commish decide on deals. If he's fine with this deal, let him override the veto. We haven't heard from him on this case. I'd be interested to hear his take.
    Very important point...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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