Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 67 123451151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 1000

Thread: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

  1. #1
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    6,306

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Hmm...I really don't think that Wall is athletic enough to compete at an elite level. JMO.

  4. #3
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cincy
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Good stuff right there.

    Is Wall ambidextrous? Most of the time he dunks left-handed, but shoots right-handed.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

    Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  6. #5
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    Hmm...I really don't think that Wall is athletic enough to compete at an elite level. JMO.
    Is that your honest opinion or are you just trying to rile up WMR? I haven't heard anyone say that before about Wall. I've heard "he's the type of player that gets coaches fired" but I've never heard he's not athletic enough.

  7. #6
    C-A-T-S CATS! CATS! CATS! WVRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Almost Heaven
    Posts
    8,445

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Here is a post that was from KSR that described perfectly why Billy the Clyde is out. You can determine "just cause" if you want.

    This has ended up being one of the busier two-day periods from a news perspective that we have seen in some time. Much has been written everywhere about the Calipari news, but I still think long-term that the Billy Gillispie lawsuit will stay with us longer. Because of that, I thought it might be good to look back at a piece I wrote the day after Gillispie was let go from UK. It is a good refresher on why the Clyde era ended and how the lawsuit rubs some (including this guy) the wrong way:

    So its now completely over. With his Saturday morning press conference in Lexington, the Billy Gillispie era ended for the Big Blue Nation. Its hard to know exactly how Gillispie will be noted in the grand history of UK basketball. This is a program that went nearly 45 years with two coaches and now has had 2 in three years. Of the six coaches in the modern era, 4 won national championships, one was successful before probation, and then there is Billy. In thirty years, how will we look back on the two tumultuous years the man from Texas had as head of the monster known as Kentucky basketball? We likely wont know that for some time, but what we do know is that for the second time in three years, UK will be back on the search for a new basketball coach. However this time, the search will be much different….more deliberate, less centralized and even more crucial. The Gillispie era has ended but the all-important search for his replacement has just begun.

    However before we completely close the book on Gillispie, I do think it is important to recognize how we got here. No matter what Digger Phelps, Michael Wilbon or any other national talking head may say, this decision had little to do with wins and losses. This was simply the case of an individual who was not well-suited to be the basketball coach at Kentucky. While he had moderate success on the floor, off the floor he was a Matt Doherty-like disaster. He never felt comfortable doing the things it takes to succeed here and his authoritarian personality rubbed almost everyone in the wrong way. If you win at Bobby Knight in the 1970s-like levels, you can act that way….but if you win Bobby Knight in the late 1990s-like levels, you cant.

    Below are the Five moments that I think led to Gillispie’s downfall. This decision to remove Billy Clyde was not a quick one….it built slowly over time, with each mistake building on the other. Over time the total conglomeration made it too difficult to retain him, and a move had to be made. There is a lot speculated about what happened and when, but in my view and from the information that I know, these were the ultimate causes:

    (1): Interpersonal Relationships with Administrators, Boosters and Staff


    From very early on in Gillispie’s tenure it was clear that this was a man who would do things his own way and answer to almost no one. Within his first two months on the job, it is rumored that he and Mitch Barnhart began frequently bumping heads, almost exclusively over the inability of Gillispie to accept the secondary parts of the UK job. Within his first two months, he refused various meetings with influential alumni, cancelled a 60 year tradition of the Kentucky coach speaking at the Lexington Rotary Club, refused mutiple requests to do “program building” appearances at various in-state events and generally balked at doing all things that were not basketball related. He showed from the very beginning that he was here to do one thing and one thing only, and that was coach basketball….a job description that unfortunately does not work in Lexington.

    In addition, Gillispie turned off many around the UK athletics office with his attitude and style. I have spoken with numerous UK employees who talked about the tension that all felt with Gillispie in the building. Whereas most who work for UK are part of a family atmosphere, there was a sense that Gillispie was rocking the cradle on how things were done. This led to a situation in which Gillispie had very FEW supporters among influential administrators, boosters and staff. All wanted Kentucky to win, but when losses mounted, there were few willing to go to bat for an individual that they had no particular fondness for. That lack of support, which began from Gillispie’s early days here made it much easier to make a change that very few would passionately disagree with.

    (2) Derrick Jasper:

    It cannot be overstated the impact that the Derrick Jasper situation had on the UK program. Derrick Jasper was a player loved by his teammates and all of those around the program. Jasper is a great kid and the type of player that helps a team both on and off the court. Derrick came to Kentucky for Tubby Smith, and was skeptical of staying in Lexington when a change in leadership occurred. But Gillispie sold Derrick on the idea of being the cornerstone of the new program, and Jasper decided to stay. However from the very beginning, the marriage was doomed to failure. Derrick is a very soft-spoken, mild-mannered kid who doesnt take over criticism well (much like Jodie Meeks). Gillispie’s style of coaching, which includes tremendous criticism and pitches to a player’s manhood destroyed Jasper’s confidence and made him very uncomfortable in practice and games.

    Jasper was also of course dealing with his injury that continued to linger. Derrick did not want to return to the court, but after a trainer gave the opinion that he could, Jasper found himself playing again. I have never gotten a clear story on how Jasper ended up on the court (some say Gillispie pressured him into playing, some say that Jasper felt he had to when given the clearance from the trainer), but what is clear is that Derrick regretted his decision to come back. After returning, those close to Derrick have told me that Gillispie challenged the young man a great deal on his “toughness” and if he was going to keep “letting his injury be an excuse.” The treatment turned Jasper off and he made the decision to transfer….thus taking away Kentucky’s best point guard prospect and, potentially even more importantly, a teammate that was well-liked. This team with Jasper on it is a different basketball team, but Gillispie only has himself to blame for Derrick’s departure.

    (3) The Media Problems:


    For a long time, Gillispie’s prickliness with the media has been known. Since early in his tenure, his decision to mock a question or belittle and individual for saying something he disagreed with (usually with a smirk on his face) was known to all that covered him. Usually he would apologize after such a comment (as he did with me), but no one in the media had a “warm and fuzzy” relationship with him. And then came what I believe was the turning point for the perception of Gillispie, the Jeanine Edwards interviews. What happened in those interviews has been dealt with ad nauseum but three things happened as a result of those interviews.

    First, for the first time since Gillispie had arrived, some in the public started to wonder if their beloved coach was actually a jerk. I have heard countless people, particularly women, ask if he was like that normally and question whether that public face should be the coach of the UK basketball program. Second, many in the media thought he crossed the line and it became the cause of the day to blast Gillispie and his attitude when the losing started. Most knew Edwards as a sweet, harmless reporter and seeing her treated poorly led the media to sense blood and begin questioning his attitude at other occasions. And third, it became a direct slap in the face for the Administration. After the first Edwards interview, the administration asked Gillispie to apologize and be careful what he did in the future. He did apologize, but then one week later at the Florida game, he was once again rude, an action that my sources around UK say INFURIATED Mitch and Lee Todd. The thought went that if knowing people were watching and that he needed to be on his best behavior, he STILL couldnt be polite, what hope was there for the future?

    Even after all of those Jeanine Edwards issues, Gillispie then made another mistake that older UK fans still bring up to me all the time…..he was perceived as being rude to Tom Leach. Leach, who is one of the nicest men I know, was accused by Gillispie of trying to get him to “turn on his players” just days after Gillispie threw Perry Stevenson under the bus like none other in a post game press conference. Many fans who heard that, which include a lot of the most influential and wealthy UK fans who listen to Tom on their drive home from Rupp, felt that he had crossed the line with someone they consider like family, the UK play by play announcer. Even when Leach said he took no offense (a classy move on his part), the damage was done and the reputation of Billy Gillispie as a jerk stuck for many in the Big Blue Nation. Win and be a jerk and people may forgive you….go to the NIT and be a jerk, and it is time for a change.

    (4) PLAYER RELATIONSHIPS

    While all of the above are very important, the most significant factor in the downfall of Billy Gillispie was his relationship with the players. It is not an exaggeration to suggest that with only a couple of exceptions, the players simply did not like their coach at all. With a group of young men who were extremely tight as a group, every slight and verbal assault on a teammate became an assault on them and over time, the players simply had no affection for the man in charge. Over the course of a season, countless acts occurred that ruined team chemistry and individual confidence. I am sure there are many more than this, but just a few that I know for certain:

    — Coach told Jodie Meeks in a number of games to stop shooting and decried him for his selfishness, even during his 54 point performance in Knoxville. He told Meeks he should quit on a number of occasions and even threatened to kick him off the team in his last game ever, in South Bend during the NIT.

    — At halftime of one game, he forced a player to sit in a bathroom stall with the door closed during the entire break because he said he couldnt stand to look at him.

    — On more than one occasion, when a young player went into his office to ask for advice on how he could get better, he returned from the office having been berated by the coach and crying as he returned to Wildcat Lodge.

    — On one road trip, a player who had been injured but was deemed to be too “soft” by the Coach was told to walk to the hotel from the arena, and only after teammates said that they would be get off the bus and walk with him, was he allowed back on.

    — On another road trip, a player who felt the criticism was so strong that he locked himself in a room crying, while the team bus waited outside.

    These are just a few of the countless incidents, which in total made the team a gloomy group. Some individuals could handle the criticism and some were not targeted with nearly the same amount of vigor. But the totality of the criticism piled up and led to a team that was tight, afraid to make any mistake and left with no feelings of positivity to their coach. Had Gillispie returned, it is not an exaggeration to say that six to seven players may have left….including names that UK simply could not afford to lose. While no one has ever said this to me officially, the thought of that type of mass player exodus likely would have meant another year of mediocrity or worse next year….which means Gillispie would have been in hot water AGAIN. He simply could not have survived that.

    On this site, we hinted at such issues during the year, but out of respect for the players and the team still playing, did not go into detail. But the evidence was there. Remember Dusty Mills and his comments to Jerry Tipton about the way he was treated? Derrick Jasper took heat for going to UNLV and was called a host of names by UK fans for his lack of toughness. Former players who were privy to a lot of those issues such as Kenny Walker, Bobby Perry and the unnamed Jeff Goodman source were LAMBASTED on message boards for speaking out about these very issues. What that showcased to me is that while we say we want to know everything about our program, we do not want to know bad news. Mitch and Lee knew about this and much, much more I am sure. Many fans, while ignoring the info they had been given and blaming the messenger, and not knowing a great deal of the other parts of the situation, nevertheless criticized those making the call. Hopefully that will be a situation that we attempt not to repeat going forward.

    (5) The Final Straw:

    At the SEC Tournament, I wrote on a live blog that “Billy’s commment about not being an ambassador may be the final straw.” In hindsight, I am even more confident that was the case. After the Ole Miss game, when Billy said he had “not signed on to” be am ambassador for the program, just days after Mitch Barnhart had publically made it clear that was part of the job description….well that was lights out for Billy Clyde. I spoke with someone who was around Lee Todd when he found about this quote and said he was “beyond upset” when he heard it. For a guy who was already on the brink to express that level of cluelessness as to what this job entails….well it meant he likely had to go.

    FINAL

    I believe this decision has been made for ten days or so and was just finalized and made public yesterday. It is a shame that it had to occur as there are parts of Gillispie’s personality, particularly his passion for the game, that could have been great here in Lexington. But at the end of the day, when your view on the program is different than the administation and when your relationship with players is as it was, it will be hard to succeed.….especially when you arent winning. Jodie Meeks came out this morning in the student newspaper and said that he respected Gillispie but that this was a “good decision.” After following this team for two years, interacting with nearly everyone involved in the program and seeing what I have seen, I think Jodie’s words are spot on. Gillispie is a good Coach and I think he will have success, but he cooked his own goose here. Kentucky needs a Coach who embraces the enormity of the program and succeeds at every facet of it, that was not Billy and the time for change had come.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  8. #7
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,418

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Here is a post that was from KSR that described perfectly why Billy the Clyde is out. You can determine "just cause" if you want.
    Thing is, based on the statement released by the university, they are not going to try to prove he was fired for cause. They are going to argue that the memorandum was invalid because they had not come to terms on an "official" contract yet. That is the way I read the statement anyway.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  9. #8
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Good stuff right there.

    Is Wall ambidextrous? Most of the time he dunks left-handed, but shoots right-handed.
    It appears that way doesn't it. He may as well be.

    He is equally adept finishing with either hand, often spectacularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  10. #9
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    Is that your honest opinion or are you just trying to rile up WMR? I haven't heard anyone say that before about Wall. I've heard "he's the type of player that gets coaches fired" but I've never heard he's not athletic enough.
    He's gotta be messing with me because Wall is an athletic freak of nature.

    Many have called him the best high school player they have ever seen...

    He will be the top pick in the 2010 NBA Draft, I am predicting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  11. #10
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Colorado's eastern plains
    Posts
    11,232

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS View Post
    He's gotta be messing with me because Wall is an athletic freak of nature.
    That's what I figure as well. It's just kind of a shock because he never messes with you like that....

  12. #11
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Cal is going to be on ESPN OTL today @ 3 pm per Bob Ley's twitter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  13. #12
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    South Vienna, OH
    Posts
    4,346

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

    Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?
    OSU should have never recruited Clarett. The guy was a nut case, as you can see with him being locked up. I'm not saying OSU is perfect. NO big program is perfect. I just thought it was absurd to group them with USC.

    The NCAA found pretty much nothing, and I highly doubt they gave OSU a free pass on the matter.

  14. #13
    GR8NESS WMR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    16,957

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Fascinating series of letters between UK and the NCAA.

    http://www.courier-journal.com/assets/B2135763529.PDF
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  15. #14
    Member Reds4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    3,928

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    From the Thread #3: cincrazy said, "Well, in fairness to my alma mater, the basketball program has been completely cleaned up, and Tressel has never been questioned the way Coach Cal has."

    Hasn't he? Wouldn't the whole NCAA investigation into Clarett and public opinion on that mess-- guilty even after being "proven" innocent-- color tOSU fan perception? Or is it that whole same old, same old knee jerk reaction?
    I recall reading something recently that THE Ohio State University is going to lose some scholarships in mens basketball because of poor grades. Thier APR is under the minimum acceptable level.
    Pessimists are well informed optimists

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,672

    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds4Life View Post
    I recall reading something recently that THE Ohio State University is going to lose some scholarships in mens basketball because of poor grades. Thier APR is under the minimum acceptable level.
    That is due to the one and done players not staying until the end of the quarter. Nothing to do with poor grades.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25