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Thread: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

  1. #631
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Kentucky did forfeit their 2 Ncaa tourney wins and was also stripped of their SEC regular season and tourney titles in 88.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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  3. #632
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Kentucky did forfeit their 2 Ncaa tourney wins and was also stripped of their SEC regular season and tourney titles in 88.
    I'd argue that was a lesser punishment (for a host of major violations) than is this for one violation the university knew nothing of.

    Nor should they.

    Nor would anyone expect them to.

    Except, apparently, the NCAA. (And dab.)
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I'd argue that was a lesser punishment (for a host of major violations) than is this for one violation the university knew nothing of. Nor should they. Nor would anyone expect them to. Except, apparently, the NCAA. (And dab.)
    Not playing on tv for a year, losing a scholarship for 3 (I think), and not being able to play in any postseason for 2 is much worse than what Memphis got.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Kentucky did forfeit their 2 Ncaa tourney wins and was also stripped of their SEC regular season and tourney titles in 88.
    Yeah, but the guys on the court and bench don't care about that. They still won those games on the court. You can't take it away from them. It's an empty gesture.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Yeah, but the guys on the court and bench don't care about that. They still won those games on the court. You can't take it away from them. It's an empty gesture.
    Then why are so many people bent about it?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Because it punishes people who shouldn't be punished. Memphis, its coaches, its boosters-- none of them did wrong.

    They shouldn't be punished.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Because it punishes people who shouldn't be punished. Memphis, its coaches, its boosters-- none of them did wrong. They shouldn't be punished.
    So they should punish Rose? And let's not forget that Rose would likely have been ineligible anyway because his brother was receiving free transportation frow the university.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    So they should punish Rose? And let's not forget that Rose would likely have been ineligible anyway because his brother was receiving free transportation frow the university.
    Who cheated? It certainly wasn't the institution nor its coaches or representatives/ boosters.

    And, no, the university didn't give his brother free transportation. They gave him rides back from games on chartered planes for a fee. He'd paid for some of the rides, but didn't after a specific time. When the charges came out, Rose paid Memphis back for the ride.

    (This apparently happens all the time in Division I athletics, concerning player families and chartered plane rides; it is not considered a major violation and would have only made Rose ineligible if he or his family had not paid back the price of the tickets.)
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Who cheated? It certainly wasn't the institution nor its coaches or representatives/ boosters. And, no, the university didn't give his brother free transportation. They gave him rides back from games on chartered planes for a fee. He'd paid for some of the rides, but didn't after a specific time. When the charges came out, Rose paid Memphis back for the ride. (This apparently happens all the time in Division I athletics, concerning player families and chartered plane rides; it is not considered a major violation and would have only made Rose ineligible if he or his family had not paid back the price of the tickets.)
    Was Rose not a part of the institution? And I would like to see proof that Rose paid back the university for those plane rides, because that is not how I read it.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Was Rose not a part of the institution?
    He was as much a part of the university as was Darrell Arthur at Kansas. Arthur "graduated" to the NBA after his team defeated Calipari's team. Then, the NCAA found out Arthur's high school grades were changed to keep him eligible. If his grade hadn't been changed, he'd have been ruled ineligible. As it was, he was just as ineligible as Rose.

    What happened to Kansas's championship and wins?

    Nothing.

    That involved obvious, admitted academic fraud.

    Rose's case, meanwhile, is based on possibilities and supposition. (No one at the site in Detroit nor anywhere else "caught" Rose cheating. The NCAA just thinks it's possible Rose cheated and, because they're the NCAA, that's enough to charge Memphis with the crime. Guilty until proven innocent, in this case.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    And I would like to see proof that Rose paid back the university for those plane rides, because that is not how I read it.
    Numerous reports detail that Memphis made a "clerical error" and, in fact, had Rose's credit card on file before the "free" tickets. Rose assumed all was paid, and, when he found out, paid the outstanding charges in full.

    These are minor violations that have, in past cases, warranted, a small in-season suspension ranging from 1-3 games. In other words, the tickets were not a big deal.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  12. #641
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Have you actually read the NCAA reports on the Memphis situation? Arthur's grade changes did affect his high school eligibility, but not his college eligibility. Yes, the Texas high school association has higher standards than the NCAA. Maybe the AAU should go back and strip the Carlisle Indian School of some wins because Pop Warner used to pay Jim Thorpe a quarter a touchdown. Let's deal with one scandal at a time.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  13. #642
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Sure I have read the reports on Memphis. Two minor violations for basketball (and a nebulous charge about a lack of institutional control that is patently ridiculous) and a majority of violations against the girls' golf team. (I actually find that question kind of insulting and it has little to do with this our conversation.)

    And, according to the NCAA's own by-laws, any time a player's grade is changed, he is, by definition, ineligible. It's academic fraud any way it's sliced.

    The NCAA chooses what rules to enforce and enforces those only when it feels like it against only specific programs.

    It's a patently unfair situation. How you can argue that point frankly baffles me. Memphis did no wrong, yet is being punished-- harshly-- for no other reason than the NCAA thinks Rose might have cheated on a test. Maybe.

    The SAT test administrators noticed nothing and did not flag the test. Remember, too, you must provide proof you are who you say you are with a picture ID. The proctors of the test noticed nothing amiss at the test site as well.

    He was cleared to play by the NCAA Eligibility Board before and during his freshman year while at Memphis.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  14. #643
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    ETS invalidated Rose's test score because he refused to respond to 2 inquiries about the validity of the score. That is the bottom line. Regardless of when things came to light, Rose's test score was no good and he was ineligible.

  15. #644
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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Are the NCAA's rules impossible to comprehend and seemingly haphazardly enforced? Yes. But is it better than it used to be with SMU and UK and the majority of the SEC running roughshod over the very definition of amateurism? Also yes. And also that the NCAA is not perfect in doling out punishment is no excuse for the Memphis situation. Schools know if they have a kid that breaks the rules, they will be punished, not the kid that broke the rule. It is the reality they operate in.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2009 Kentucky Wildcats Men's Basketball - 4th edition

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Schools know if they have a kid that breaks the rules, they will be punished...
    ...unless they're Kansas (Arthur), Duke (Maggette), UCLA (Walton, et al) or one of the other NCAA Golden Dynasties?

    The NCAA hammered Memphis for a violation they have ignored or slapped programs on the wrist for in the past.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher


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