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Thread: Owings has to go!

  1. #1
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    Owings has to go!

    You can't keep running him out in the #5 spot and be serious about winning. His FB is 89 and his offspeed stuff is 83. He does not have an out pitch. I fail to see how anyone can think he can be a decent MLB pitcher.
    80% of the earth is covered by water. The other 20% is covered by Eric Davis.

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  3. #2
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    I agree with you. The guy is either mediocre to the tune of 3 or 4 ER over 5 or 6 innings or he's allowed 5 by 2 IP. He got hit so hard last year down the stretch in a pitcher's park in Arizona and the Dbacks gave up on him as an organization adn they were laughing when they lured Adam Dunn with Owings as the key of the trade coming back. Jocketty doesn't wanna look stupid; so he is gonna run Owings out there as many times as he can........ We'll never get to where we all wanna get with Owings in the rotation. He is absolutely horrible.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  4. #3
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    It's definitely time to give up on this experiment and pull a Rick Ankiel on him. He's proven to be much more effective as a pinch-hitter than a pitcher. The only thing is, I don't see any other option at this point until Volquez returns (and even after Volquez returns). Would Homer Bailey really be any better in the 5th spot? I don't think so.

  5. #4
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Homer has better stuff then Micah. Homer didn't pitch all that bad. His control was the problem. I think Homer should get the 10+ starts this year Micah is gonna get before we draw a conclusion.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  6. #5
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    cough Nick Masset cough

  7. #6
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruce32 View Post
    I agree with you. The guy is either mediocre to the tune of 3 or 4 ER over 5 or 6 innings or he's allowed 5 by 2 IP. He got hit so hard last year down the stretch in a pitcher's park in Arizona and the Dbacks gave up on him as an organization adn they were laughing when they lured Adam Dunn with Owings as the key of the trade coming back. Jocketty doesn't wanna look stupid; so he is gonna run Owings out there as many times as he can........ We'll never get to where we all wanna get with Owings in the rotation. He is absolutely horrible.
    I continue to be amazed at this.

    Micah Owings is not a great pitcher. We've established this. It takes one glance at his career averages to see he's slightly below average. But has anyone actually looked at the bottom of the teams' rotations?

    The National League average in runs scored is right around 4.60 runs per game typically. This means that to counteract all the Johan Santanas, Jake Peavys, Chris Carpenters and Chad Billingsleys, etc. out there, there are a lot of pitchers getting trounced on a nightly basis.

    That means most teams' fifth, and sometimes fourth starters are giving up nearly 5-7 runs per nine innings. Owings is slightly below 5 ERA which means he's actually far better than most options other teams have.

    Here are the aggregate 5th starter ERA's for the NL teams this season (Micah Owings 5.10 ERA):

    4.72
    4.73
    4.80
    4.83
    4.99
    (Owings 5.10)
    5.17
    5.23
    5.36
    5.53
    5.85
    6.43
    6.57
    6.75
    7.69
    9.66

    This means that prior to yesterday's game, only two teams had a better ERA out of their aggregate fifth starters than did Owings (4.75). Right now, only five do.

    The collective ERA out of all these aforementioned fifth starters: 5.81 (433 earned runs allowed in 670 innings).

    This means Owings is three quarters an earned run better than the average league fifth starter. He's only just a little over a quarter of a run from being the best 5th starter in the National League (and was just about that until yesterday's game).

    I would say based on this, that Reds fans should probably focus their worries elsewhere, rather than a pretty productive (relative to the league) fifth starter. When you consider Owings' run production as a pitcher, he becomes the most valuable fifth starter around.
    Last edited by Brutus; 06-01-2009 at 11:44 AM. Reason: Needed to correct an error
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #7
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    People quickly forget how much better Owings has been then the trash we ran out there last year.

  9. #8
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I continue to be amazed at this.

    Micah Owings is not a great pitcher. We've established this. It takes one glance at his career averages to see he's slightly below average. But has anyone actually looked at the bottom of the teams' rotations?

    The National League average in runs scored is right around 4.60 runs per game typically. This means that to counteract all the Johan Santanas, Jake Peavys, Chris Carpenters and Chad Billingsleys, etc. out there, there are a lot of pitchers getting trounced on a nightly basis.

    That means most teams' fifth, and sometimes fourth starters are giving up nearly 5-7 runs per nine innings. Owings is slightly below 5 ERA which means he's actually far better than most options other teams have.

    Here are the aggregate 5th starter ERA's for the NL teams this season (Micah Owings 5.10 ERA):

    4.72
    4.73
    4.80
    4.83
    4.99
    (Owings 5.10)
    5.17
    5.23
    5.36
    5.53
    5.85
    6.43
    6.57
    6.75
    7.69
    9.66

    This means that prior to yesterday's game, only two teams had a better ERA out of their aggregate fifth starters than did Owings (4.75). Right now, only six do.

    The collective ERA out of all these aforementioned fifth starters: 5.81 (433 earned runs allowed in 670 innings).

    This means Owings is three quarters an earned run better than the average league fifth starter. He's only just a little over a quarter of a run from being the best 5th starter in the National League (and was just about that until yesterday's game).

    I would say based on this, that Reds fans should probably focus their worries elsewhere, rather than a pretty productive (relative to the league) fifth starter. When you consider Owings' run production as a pitcher, he becomes the most valuable fifth starter around.

    I nominate this for the most rational response to an argument award. Not only is he doing just fine for a 5th starter, but its not like we have someone waiting in the wings to replace him. Massett is doing great in the bullpen, leave him there. Homer showed last week he's still not MLB material. Thompson, Ramirez, Maloney? No one can honestly tell me that they think any of those guys could do a better job than Owings is doing.
    Reds 2010 NL Central Champs

  10. #9
    Member Moosie52's Avatar
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Does Harang also have to go? Based on his last performance, he isn't good enough to be a #5.

  11. #10
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I continue to be amazed at this.

    Micah Owings is not a great pitcher. We've established this. It takes one glance at his career averages to see he's slightly below average. But has anyone actually looked at the bottom of the teams' rotations?

    The National League average in runs scored is right around 4.60 runs per game typically. This means that to counteract all the Johan Santanas, Jake Peavys, Chris Carpenters and Chad Billingsleys, etc. out there, there are a lot of pitchers getting trounced on a nightly basis.

    That means most teams' fifth, and sometimes fourth starters are giving up nearly 5-7 runs per nine innings. Owings is slightly below 5 ERA which means he's actually far better than most options other teams have.

    Here are the aggregate 5th starter ERA's for the NL teams this season (Micah Owings 5.10 ERA):

    4.72
    4.73
    4.80
    4.83
    4.99
    (Owings 5.10)
    5.17
    5.23
    5.36
    5.53
    5.85
    6.43
    6.57
    6.75
    7.69
    9.66

    This means that prior to yesterday's game, only two teams had a better ERA out of their aggregate fifth starters than did Owings (4.75). Right now, only six do.

    The collective ERA out of all these aforementioned fifth starters: 5.81 (433 earned runs allowed in 670 innings).

    This means Owings is three quarters an earned run better than the average league fifth starter. He's only just a little over a quarter of a run from being the best 5th starter in the National League (and was just about that until yesterday's game).

    I would say based on this, that Reds fans should probably focus their worries elsewhere, rather than a pretty productive (relative to the league) fifth starter. When you consider Owings' run production as a pitcher, he becomes the most valuable fifth starter around.
    Bingo. It doesn't help that Owings has had to face the other teams #1 or #2 starters the last few times out. He is the best option we have as the number five starter right now, maybe with the exception of Maloney, who I would really like to see get a shot at some point.

  12. #11
    Member Rockermann's Avatar
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I continue to be amazed at this....

    The collective ERA out of all these aforementioned fifth starters: 5.81 (433 earned runs allowed in 670 innings).

    This means Owings is three quarters an earned run better than the average league fifth starter. He's only just a little over a quarter of a run from being the best 5th starter in the National League (and was just about that until yesterday's game).

    I would say based on this, that Reds fans should probably focus their worries elsewhere, rather than a pretty productive (relative to the league) fifth starter. When you consider Owings' run production as a pitcher, he becomes the most valuable fifth starter around.
    I knew some one would come along and state this much better than I could. There is no doubt, to this point that Owings is a SOLID improvement for us in the 5th slot. Not something to fret over at this point at all.
    Steve
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    http://www.project-43.com

  13. #12
    Dude Rock
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Here's a post I made in another thread about quality starts by our starters:

    Quality Starts by Reds pitchers:

    Harang
    11 starts
    6+ innings - 7 times
    3 or less runs in those 6+ innings (quality start) - 5 times
    3 or less runs in less than 6 innings - 2 times

    Cueto
    10 starts
    6+ innings - 9 times (impressive)
    3 or less runs in those 6+ innings (quality start) - 7 times
    3 or less runs in less than 6 innings - 1 time
    (gave up 4 runs in his 2 other games - very impressive)

    Arroyo
    10 starts
    6+ innings - 8 times
    The only 2 times he didn't go 6+ innings we know he got lit up for 9 ER in each of two games.
    3 or less runs in 6+ innings (quality start) - 6 times

    Volquez
    8 starts
    6+ innings - 4 times
    3 or less runs in 6+ innings (quality start) - 3 times
    3 or less runs in less than 6 innings - 2 times
    In his other 3 starts he gave up 4, 6, and 7 ER's.

    Owings
    9 starts
    6+ innings - 3 times
    3 or less earned runs in 6+ innings (quality start) - 2 times
    3 or less earned runs in less than 6 innings - 3 times

    Recap - quality starts by Reds pitchers:
    Cueto - 7
    Arroyo - 6
    Harang - 5
    Volquez - 3
    Owings - 2

    Recap - 4 or less earned runs given up by Reds starters in any amount of innings:
    Cueto - all of his starts - 10 times (10 starts)
    Owings - 7 times (9 starts)
    Harang - 7 times (11 starts)
    Arroyo - 6 times (10 starts)
    Volquez - 5 times (8 starts)

  14. #13
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBruce32 View Post
    Homer has better stuff then Micah. Homer didn't pitch all that bad. His control was the problem. I think Homer should get the 10+ starts this year Micah is gonna get before we draw a conclusion.
    Inst control a big part of pitching??? He can have all the "stuff" in the world, if he cant control it, it doesnt matter. Why not give Micah the 10 starts then as well before we drawa a conclusion, we at least know what we are getting with him, until Homer proves he is the real deal and deserves a shot? No doubt we are going to need better production out of the #5 spot, whoever it is, I just dont see the clear option yet.
    UNC Tar Heels 2009 National Champions 5 time NCAA Champs
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  15. #14
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    I wouldn't mind Masset getting a shot if he continues tp pitch like he has, but in all reality I don't see anyone in AAA putting up better numbers than Owings has. I wouldn't mind seeing Maloney get a shot, but I wouldnt bet he would do any better.

  16. #15
    Dude Rock
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    Re: Owings has to go!

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    I wouldn't mind Masset getting a shot if he continues tp pitch like he has, but in all reality I don't see anyone in AAA putting up better numbers than Owings has. I wouldn't mind seeing Maloney get a shot, but I wouldnt bet he would do any better.
    I wanted to see Maloney for two reasons:
    1. He deserves a shot with his sub-3.00 e.r.a.
    2. He's a lefty.


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