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Thread: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

  1. #1
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    This team is on a teeter-totter and gets in a streak where they win enough games to get close to contending and then hit a streak where they knock themselves right out of it. Jay Bruce isn't making contact. Joey Votto is suffering from dizziness and really doesn't have a timetable of returning. Edwin is still listed at weeks away from being ready with the likelyhood of a rehab assignment. Edison is trying to come back from back pain and now might be DL bound again after last nights departure. Harang had a deja-vu accurance his last outing that resembled a lot like last years meltdown. This team does however seem to overcome all this with timely hitting and amazing relief from the pen. These are some moves I make to put them over the hump prior to the deadline:

    -Trade Homer Bailey, Chris Dickerson, Todd Frazier and Josh Roenicke To Oakland For Matt Holliday and Dallas Braden

    -Sign Ben Sheets to an incentive based contract

    These two moves makes this team a contender while yes adding payroll.. payroll we have which should be roughly about 10 million will no doubt put fans in seats and will pay for itself by adding these two All-Stars. Dallas Braden would be moved to Louisville. Holliday becomes that power hitting right handed bat that we sought for in the offseason and Sheets moves into the rotation in place of Owings. Owings then moves to the pen with Lincoln DFAd. Homer Bailey and Todd Frazier are the centerpieces of the deal and should be more then enough to get the deal done. The Reds would probably have to show that they are willing to contend to land Sheets so making a deal for Holliday and keeping the organizations top pieces intact might just do that. This line-up with a healthy Votto and Bruce mixed in with hot hitting Brandon Phillips and Ramon Hernadez could definatly be enough to put this team from third to first by seasons end. Picture this line-up and rotation:

    Taveras
    Phillips
    Votto
    Holliday
    Bruce
    Hernandez
    Rosales/Encarnacion
    Gonzalez

    Harang
    Volquez
    Arroyo
    Sheets
    Cueto

    Any thoughts?
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  3. #2
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    I like the ideas. I know many around here aren't Holliday fans, but I think he'd do just fine in GABP. And if the A's want too much to get Holliday (which is likely) I make a run at Jermaine Dye.

    With that being said, I don't think it's realistic to expect a big bump in attendance just because of the moves. This team is going to have to win for that to be certain.

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    I don't think Sheets is pitching anywhere this year.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Joey Votto Fangirl HeatherC1212's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    I'm not sure I want to give up that much for Holliday who would only be here for a few months before hitting FA before 2010. He may do all right hitting at GABP but I'm still weary of that trade simply because we'd only have him for a short amount of time and then if we don't resign him for next season, we've lost quite a few solid prospects that could help us be a contending team next season. That may just be me though.

    ITA with the previous poster that Sheets won't be pitching anywhere this season. I don't think he'll be ready.
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    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    No way I'd give up that much for a few months of Holliday.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Giving up that return for Holliday means you intend to keep him longer than this season. Which then begs the question, which 2 players from our core (Votto, Bruce, Volquez and Cueto) do you want to lose for lack of funds in a few years? That is my only problem with acquiring Holliday and giving up alot to get him. Financially we are sending alot of cheap productive players one way and then limiting what we can spend in the future to boot. I'd offer a reasonable rental package for Holliday but not what you have listed, if Beane says no then I move on to the not so known commodities who may provide close to similiar production. In the end I like this core and want to give them that money.
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    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherC1212 View Post
    I'm not sure I want to give up that much for Holliday who would only be here for a few months before hitting FA before 2010. He may do all right hitting at GABP but I'm still weary of that trade simply because we'd only have him for a short amount of time and then if we don't resign him for next season, we've lost quite a few solid prospects that could help us be a contending team next season. That may just be me though.
    Don't ever be afraid of trading for a guy who is about to be a FA. The fact that you're only going to have him for about 8-9 weeks helps you as the buyer drive down the price.

    Plus, if he walks, you get compensated in the next draft.

    It's a strategy that the Reds have not utilized very effectively in the last 15 years.

    (Though in fairness, it's not like the Reds have been in a position to be buyers during most years at the July trading frenzy...)

    Edit: Also, never underestimate the seller's motivation to move a veteran contract for a few months of payroll relief. If you're willing to take on a couple million $ in salary, you might not have to give up much in return. The Reds aren't the only MLB team with payroll constraints.

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    First, Oakland wouldn't do that.

    Second, Sheets will be lucky to pitch before September.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Matt Holliday's away splits:

    .298 .383 .468 .851

    Now put him in a smaller HR happy NL Central.

    I'd offer Stubbs, Frazier and Viola, IF an extension could be worked out. a 3 day negotiating period.

    No negotiating period or unable to reach an agreement, no deal.

    And I think Oakland would devour that deal.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    If you want Holliday, I think you'd have to start with Yonder Alonso and add on from there.

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    If you want Holliday, I think you'd have to start with Yonder Alonso and add on from there.
    I don't think so. Frazier may be just as good with the stick as Yonder, and has a little versatility defensively. Stubbs defense would play well into Beane's philosophy, and there are some BIG OF's in the AL West. Viola is a wildcard. could be a dominant LH in the pen or possibly a #3 starter.

    I think it's a good deal for Oakland.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    Don't ever be afraid of trading for a guy who is about to be a FA. The fact that you're only going to have him for about 8-9 weeks helps you as the buyer drive down the price.

    Plus, if he walks, you get compensated in the next draft.

    You only get compensation if you offer him arbitration.

    These days, that's not as automatic as one thinks.

    Look at Arizona and Dunn. He would have accepted arbitration and ARizona new that he likley would. So, they got no compensation.
    Last edited by PuffyPig; 06-02-2009 at 06:57 PM.

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You only get compensation if you offer him arbitration.

    These days, that's not as automatic as one thinks.

    Look at Arizona and Dunn. He would have accepted arbitration and ARizona new that he likley would. So, they got no compensation.
    But the Reds would be happy if Holiday accepted arbitration. They can handle a one year contract for him.

    And his agent is Boras, who never accepts arbitration, so it really is automatic. He turned it down with Manny when it was a no brainer to take it.

    If the Reds got Holiday, he would become a free agent, be offered arbitration and the reject it. Unless he is injured, all three of those things happen in the off season. Trust me, it is automatic.
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    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    No way you give up that much for Holiday. No matter what he's going to be a free agent
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    Re: Moves To Be Made Prior To 7/31/2009 For The Reds

    And if the team's not doing well? My guess is Cordero's becoming valuable again.


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