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Thread: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

  1. #31
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    You have said quite frequently that you want pitchers with great control and don't care about strikeouts that much. Well, the guy supposedly coming up to pitch on Saturday has a 1.2 BB/9 this season. That pretty much defines exceptional control. So why would the Reds go outside of the organization for that? Unless you are talking about someone with really good stuff and exceptional control... but I don't think Zach Greinke is available.
    Maloney will get his shot, apparently. Let's hope his stuff is somewhere between Greinke's and someone's who is really awful.

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    I see a lot of the West Coast teams, what with the Angels being in that time-zone and that division. I suggest that you check your health care plan and see if optometry is covered by it.

    And while you're at it check where the decimal point is in the salary: it's $13.4M not $1.34M. At his price he's not a good addition by any stretch of the imagination.

    Rem
    I completely agree, but I get the feeling that jojo has had this argument a couple times before, probably on another board.

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    You have said quite frequently that you want pitchers with great control and don't care about strikeouts that much. Well, the guy supposedly coming up to pitch on Saturday has a 1.2 BB/9 this season. That pretty much defines exceptional control. So why would the Reds go outside of the organization for that? Unless you are talking about someone with really good stuff and exceptional control... but I don't think Zach Greinke is available.

    This report surprises me, I'll believe the Reds are looking for a 3B when I see it. Edwin just got a two year deal in the offseason, I would be pretty suprised if he gets replaced.
    Yup.

    Maloney trusts his stuff. That's huge for a rookie starter.

    Who knows if he'll get tagged because of it, but he's not going to get himself into trouble with walks.

    He's actually just the type of guy FCB would love.

    Thing is, it's his first and maybe only crack until september call ups so he could press.

    His personality doesn't seem to indicate that, though. Something tells me he will be as cool as the other side of the pillow out there, but maybe that's just a personal bias. I've trained right next to him at my gym, and let me tell you folks, he's really someone to pull for.

    As far as 3B is concerned, good ones are a tough get. I'd rather they lump it with EE and find a bat for the OF (really not sold on Nix/Gomes as the ultimate answer).
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  5. #34
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Beltre would be a great addition. Heck, offer EE for him straight up and see if Seattle bites.

    Beltre's defense is substantially better than EE's, literally wins worth, even if it has slipped a little. As for the offensive comparison -- with full understanding that EE has not reached his peak and Beltre has... here's the last three years for them both, home and away. It's pretty interesting if you ask me. EE walks a lot more in GABP than he does on the road. Beltre is basically the same hitter in both places except for the fact that doubles die for him in Safeco. The away numbers are much more "fair", less influenced by park factor, than the home figures. EE comes out ahead slightly in the aggregate, but if you focus on the away figures, it's not even close.

    Code:
    [/B]Player	Split	G	PA	AB	R	H	2B	3B	HR	RBI	SB	CS	BB	SO	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS[/B]
    Beltre	Home	224	943	862	117	217	40	2	37	112	20	3	71	157	.252	.311	.432	.742
    EE	Home	205	812	700	114	196	44	1	32	120	5	4	86	129	.280	.373	.483	.856
    																		
    Beltre	Away	224	989	909	132	261	69	5	39	153	13	6	64	155	.287	.338	.502	.840
    EE	Away	197	789	714	87	188	43	2	25	96	10	0	55	137	.263	.329	.434	.763
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 06-04-2009 at 07:29 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Beltre would be a great addition. Heck, offer EE for him straight up and see if Seattle bites.
    If that were the case, I'd be inclined to bite. What about next year would be my main concern, though.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    If the Reds are looking for a thirdbaseman, then why the heck did they sign EE for two years?

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Maloney will get his shot, apparently. Let's hope his stuff is somewhere between Greinke's and someone's who is really awful.
    Dude, let's not set such expectations!

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  9. #38
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    If the Reds are looking for a thirdbaseman, then why the heck did they sign EE for two years?
    I think they've soured on him.

    I'm not so sure about that just yet. I'd like to see what he can do the rest of the way.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  10. #39
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    If the Reds are looking for a thirdbaseman, then why the heck did they sign EE for two years?
    Very reasonably priced and tradable contract.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    For the numbers that Beltre puts up it would be insane for anyone to pay him $13.4M.

    For that kind of money you should be getting a #1 starter or a premier SS.

    Funny how many people watch numbers but ignore the number that is the price tag for that little trinket of pyrite.

    Rem

  12. #41
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    For the numbers that Beltre puts up it would be insane for anyone to pay him $13.4M.

    For that kind of money you should be getting a #1 starter or a premier SS.

    Funny how many people watch numbers but ignore the number that is the price tag for that little trinket of pyrite.

    Rem
    Based on his combined offensive and defensive production and the price of that production on the free agent market, Fangraphs shows him worth $48.1M over the last 3 years -- that doesn't include his crazy walk year in LA. You can certainly make the argument that the Reds can't afford market prices if you want to, but Beltre is not overpaid.

    I'll be the first to admit defensive stats have a ways to go, but we've seen over the last few years the value of defense -- just ask Philly, Tampa Bay, and the 2009 Reds.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #42
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    I completely agree, but I get the feeling that jojo has had this argument a couple times before, probably on another board.
    Beltre's production as an M has been worth $60.3M to date based upon WAR. He's been paid, about $50M to this point (prorating his '09 thus far).

    I reject the notion that paying a player less than his production is worth on the open market qualifies as a bad contract when that player has had above average value (he's averaged 3.5 WAR a season as a Mariner).
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #43
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    I don't disagree that Beltre's been a good value, but unless the Reds can get him for a lot less than what he's currently making, I don't believe acquiring a 30 year old player for multiple seasons is a good plan of attack for this franchise.

    As I said, I wouldn't be opposed to getting him for this season, but I sincerely doubt the Reds are going to be contending much longer, making the expenditure generally a big waste, both in money and prospects.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 06-04-2009 at 08:14 PM.

  15. #44
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog View Post
    For the numbers that Beltre puts up it would be insane for anyone to pay him $13.4M.

    For that kind of money you should be getting a #1 starter or a premier SS.

    Funny how many people watch numbers but ignore the number that is the price tag for that little trinket of pyrite.

    Rem
    Your argument would make perfect sense if it were not predicated on the flawed view of Beltre's production as an M. As it is, your argument has to ignore both defensive metrics and the eyes of coaches and scouts regarding his defensive ability and it ignores randomness and environment relative to his offensive ability.

    I'm sorry, but I disagree with your position completely and it's because of the numbers and the price tag associated with them.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Very reasonably priced and tradable contract.

    I honestly don't know how tradable he is. I'm guessing a lot of GMs are not going to look at him as a third-base solution.


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