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Thread: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

  1. #61
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Based on his combined offensive and defensive production and the price of that production on the free agent market, Fangraphs shows him worth $48.1M over the last 3 years
    What formula does Fangraph utilize to determine a player's monetary worth? That's interesting. And just how reliable is it?

    You can certainly make the argument that the Reds can't afford market prices if you want to, but Beltre is not overpaid.
    Agree. It's not an issue of worth, but of affordability.

    We spend 33M, out of a 74M payroll, on three pitchers (Cordero, Harang, Arroyo). Are they worth it? Look at how much improved out pitching overall is this year. They are primarily the reason we are in the hunt this year. Now is the amount of money we're paying them "hindering" us in other areas? Good question. I'd say logically yes. You only have so much to spend. And this organization, as well as numerous others, are forced into a "rob Peter to pay Paul" mentality. We use to look for the "Harnischs" in pitching, while generously paying for position players.

    I don't know if it was an intentional approach by this FO, but it appears they have sacrificed offense (a lot IMO) for pitching/defense. Look at out situation in LF right now. IMO, we obviously traded away Dunn for financial reasons and regardless of what one thinks of Dickerson/Nix/Gomes, IMO, we went on the cheap in a "crap shoot" approach. I have no problem with the cheap approach if a young player is at the ready (i.e. Bruce, Votto), or even has acquired an alternative solution in the market. But that is not what the Reds seem to do in various cases.

    That is why we have the "holes" that we do on this team. Or else have a guy like JHJ who can be moved around the horn all the time.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  3. #62
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    How about getting Marte (AAA) from the Tribe. Once a hot prospect that is now rebuilding his way back into being a starting major league third baseman. Wouldn't cost much from a trade standpoint, young, inexpensive, would be here for years.
    ...And this one belongs to the Reds!!

  4. #63
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    The enthusiasm for DeRosa baffles me. His current OPS is .765, Hairston's is .780.
    Current, being key.

    Career:

    DeRosa - .769
    Hairston - .704

    65 points is notable.

  5. #64
    Greatness In The Making RedLegSuperStar's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Texas is dangling Hank Blahlock in exchange for a reliever.

    - MLBTradeRumors.com
    "I could watch video of Griffey swinging all day. It's like baseball porn." - C. Trent Rosecrans


    2008 Reds Record When I Attend: 9W - 5L

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  6. #65
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar View Post
    Texas is dangling Hank Blahlock in exchange for a reliever.

    - MLBTradeRumors.com

    "Mr. Lincoln, welcome to Texas."

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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    lol...my guess is: not that reliever!

  8. #67
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    I went through some of the possible 3B options that have been mentioned as potentially available, and compared their 3-year averages (2006-2008) with one another. I used only road splits to get a more adjusted comparison.

    Here is what I came up with:

    Code:
    			AVG 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS	BB%	K%   HR%   GPA   wOBA PA/RC
    Edwin Encarnacion	0.263	0.328	0.434	0.762	7.15% 17.82% 3.25% 0.256 0.335 7.7
    Adrian Beltre		0.287	0.338	0.503	0.841	6.58% 15.93% 4.01% 0.278 0.362 6.5
    Kevin Kouzmanoff	0.282	0.330	0.488	0.818	5.11% 17.80% 4.33% 0.271 0.353 7.0
    Mark DeRosa		0.278	0.350	0.446	0.796	9.57% 17.38% 2.72% 0.269 0.351 7.0
    Miguel Tejada		0.283	0.338	0.408	0.746	6.46% 12.17% 1.90% 0.254 0.332 8.0
    Hank Blalock		0.254	0.305	0.414	0.719	7.02% 16.27% 2.91% 0.241 0.315 8.2
    Jorge Cantu		0.231	0.282	0.379	0.661	6.17% 17.25% 3.01% 0.222 0.293 9.6
    Again, this is based on AWAY splits for a 3-year period dating 2006-2008.

    After seeing this, throwing in defense, it looks like Beltre is the best option by far. Kouzmanoff is actually an intriguing option if he is available. However, Beltre is my choice.
    Last edited by Brutus; 06-05-2009 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Formatting
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #68
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I went through some of the possible 3B options that have been mentioned as potentially available, and compared their 3-year averages (2006-2008) with one another. I used only road splits to get a more adjusted comparison.

    Here is what I came up with:


    Player ...............Ave/OBP/SLG/OPS... GPA...wOBA...PA/RC...BB%...K%
    Edwin Encarnacion .263/.328/.434/.762 .256 .335 ... 7.7 ... 7.15% ... 17.82%
    Adrian Beltre .........287/.338/.503/.841 .278 .362 ... 6.5 ... 6.56% ... 15.93%
    Kevin Kouzmanoff....282/.330/.488/.818 .271 .353 ... 7.0 ... 5.11% ... 17.80%
    Mark DeRosa..........278/.350/.446/.796 .269 .351 ... 7.0 ... 9.57% ... 17.38%
    Miguel Tejada.........283/.338/.408/.746 .254 .332 ... 8.0 ... 6.46% ... 12.17%
    Hank Blalock...........254/.305/.414/.719 .241 .315 ... 8.2 ... 7.02% ... 16.27%
    Jorge Cantu............231/.282/.379/.661 .222 .293 .. 9.6 ... 6.17% ... 17.25%


    And, though I did not include it, Beltre & Kouzmanoff had the highest HR% of these options in that time period as well. Again, this is based on AWAY splits for a 3-year period dating 2006-2008.

    After seeing this, throwing in defense, it looks like Beltre is the best option by far. Kouzmanoff is actually an intriguing option if he is available. However, Beltre is my choice.
    Brutus: back during the offseason lots of ORG members thought Beltre was a good target for the Reds. Unfortunately Walt doesn't listen to us.
    .

  10. #69
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Good Bye Redszone ORG. We have morphed into Reds.com.


  11. #70
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Good Bye Redszone ORG. We have morphed into Reds.com.

    Huh? What did I miss?

    Holy crap I just realized I am at 4,999 posts, sorry but I didn't want to waste my 5,000th post on mentioning this.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  12. #71
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Huh? What did I miss?

    Holy crap I just realized I am at 4,999 posts, sorry but I didn't want to waste my 5,000th post on mentioning this.

    I'm sorry you wasted your 5,000th post with bullcrap. (That's my point.)

    I used to come here for information about the Reds and to learn more about the game I love because RedsZone used to be the most informative Reds site on the Internet.

    There was a time when we could acually learn something from the discussions here.

    I'm afraid that's just not the case anymore.

  13. #72
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I'm sorry you wasted your 5,000th post with bullcrap. (That's my point.)

    I used to come here for information about the Reds and to learn more about the game I love because RedsZone used to be the most informative Reds site on the Internet.

    There was a time when we could acually learn something from the discussions here.

    I'm afraid that's just not the case anymore.
    I think what you are seeing is the descent into frustration again. Every year about this time, people throw out whatever ideas they can about how to fix the situation. Take a look around at other Reds forums, they have a negative tone as well.

    We can all see it, the Reds just aren't good enough right now, especially without Votto, Volquez, and EdE. Take two impact players, and a solid everyday player away from any team, for months at a time, and things get pretty scary. They have to tread water, at least until next Sunday, when they hopefully, maybe, get all of them back. No amount of in depth statistical analysis, trade speculation, or whimsical prose will change that. Walt can't be a buyer, or seller, until he knows what they have.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  14. #73
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    I'm sorry you wasted your 5,000th post with bullcrap. (That's my point.)

    I used to come here for information about the Reds and to learn more about the game I love because RedsZone used to be the most informative Reds site on the Internet.

    There was a time when we could acually learn something from the discussions here.

    I'm afraid that's just not the case anymore.
    I still don't get the reds.com reference.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #74
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    Re: Per Buster Olney: Reds looking for a 3rd baseman

    I am more partial to Fastball.com....I had my Vada Pinson moniker then.

    What we need is a shot of Chris Stynes/Jon Nunally type production from someone....anyone.


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