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Thread: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

  1. #61
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    I've seen better control than Moyer's. I've seen better sink, better movement, WAY better velocity. I've heard that he fools hitters, hides it well, but all of his pitches do about the same thing, the speed is s-l-o-w, and the speed differences aren't very large. he's not fooling anyone; they just can't hit him very well.

    how his stuff works is beyond me. people have tried to explain it to me but it's clear that they're not real sure, and wouldn't advocate the approach to anyone else. you teach different speeds, you teach movement, you teach velocity. you don't teach Moyer.

    Maloney = Moyer? when Moyer's gone, he's extinct IMO.

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  3. #62
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    I've seen better control than Moyer's. I've seen better sink, better movement, WAY better velocity. I've heard that he fools hitters, hides it well, but all of his pitches do about the same thing, the speed is s-l-o-w, and the speed differences aren't very large. he's not fooling anyone; they just can't hit him very well.

    how his stuff works is beyond me. people have tried to explain it to me but it's clear that they're not real sure, and wouldn't advocate the approach to anyone else. you teach different speeds, you teach movement, you teach velocity. you don't teach Moyer.

    Maloney = Moyer? when Moyer's gone, he's extinct IMO.
    His righty version the last few years has been Trevor Hoffman. He has nothing. Still getting people out and making some cool millions. Artistry is my explanation.

  4. #63
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Just looked at Moyer's stats again (for about the 3000th time) and I was amazed (again) to realize that at the age of 40! he won 21 games and finished 5th in the AL Cy Young voting (could have been 3rd if he wasn't named 'Jamie Moyer')! Incredible; you are right.

  5. #64
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    I don't see the comparison between Maloney and Jamie Moyer. Every pitcher who doesn't have top velocity is not a Jamie Moyer clone. Moyer is a unique type picher, from what I've read Maloney isn't like that.

    From what I've read, Maloney is a possible lefty Bronson Arroyo. Has the secondary pitches and control to succeed. Question is whether the fastball is good enough to keep hitters honest.

    When Arroyo's fastball isn't in the 88-90 range, he has problems. Hitters just focus on the junk, they don't worry about the fastball. But when his fastball is good enough to keep them honest, he's effective. Maloney seems similar, from the left hand side.

    I'm looking forward to these starts by Maloney, hopefully plural, because he's really earned it. It took him awhile to master AAA, but this year he's been dominant there and he seems ready. He needs to keep the ball in the park, and then he'll probably be ok.

  6. #65
    Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Eric_the_Red's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    I always enjoyed watching Greg Maddux pitch, even when he was with the Cubs and Braves- my most hated teams, for much the same reason. He understood pitching better than anyone, and had tremendous control. He wasn't a flamethrower but he knew how to set-up batters and get outs.

  7. #66
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red View Post
    I always enjoyed watching Greg Maddux pitch, even when he was with the Cubs and Braves- my most hated teams, for much the same reason. He understood pitching better than anyone, and had tremendous control. He wasn't a flamethrower but he knew how to set-up batters and get outs.
    He also got an extra 6 inches on the inside of the plate and another foot on the outside.... the strikezone during the height of his success as a Brave shouldve been a bigger controversy than PEDs.....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #67
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Maloney may not be like Moyer now, but Moyer has been around forever and when he was young he was a different guy, that said Maloney should hope he's like Moyer, 72-79 before he hit 33 and 174-106 since.

    Moyer is the classic upset timing lefty, in the late 80's he was a high 80's FB guy and 10 years later low 80's. Jerry Hairston said his fastball (in 2002) was about the speed of the rest of the leagues CU and his CU was about 72 miles an hour, you try an attack the ball and it's not there yet.

    He will throw that pitch at any batter in any situation with any count imaginable.

  9. #68
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    He also got an extra 6 inches on the inside of the plate and another foot on the outside.... the strikezone during the height of his success as a Brave shouldve been a bigger controversy than PEDs.....
    That's hyperbole. I've watched Maddux pitch more than any other pitcher as I lived in Atlanta during his entire run there and that's just not true. I agree that the strike zone during the 90's was inconsistent and that a lot of pitchers got away with outside pitches being called strikes but to claim Maddux, or anyone else, routinely got 18 extra inches is just ridiculous.
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  10. #69
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    That's hyperbole. I've watched Maddux pitch more than any other pitcher as I lived in Atlanta during his entire run there and that's just not true. I agree that the strike zone during the 90's was inconsistent and that a lot of pitchers got away with outside pitches being called strikes but to claim Maddux, or anyone else, routinely got 18 extra inches is just ridiculous.
    Like all good pitchers, Maddux got the calls when he needed them. If there was a little doubt, Maddux usually would get the call. When you are around the plate as much as Maddux, that should be the case. 18 inches is a little out there.
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  11. #70
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC View Post
    Like all good pitchers, Maddux got the calls when he needed them. If there was a little doubt, Maddux usually would get the call. When you are around the plate as much as Maddux, that should be the case. 18 inches is a little out there.
    Hit the spot, hit the spot, hit the spot... gain respect.

  12. #71
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    That's hyperbole.
    Yes.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #72
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    His righty version the last few years has been Trevor Hoffman. He has nothing. Still getting people out and making some cool millions. Artistry is my explanation.
    but I understand Hoffman. His fastball and changeup have big speed difference, and the pitches move differently. The breaking ball is pretty much same speed as fastball but moves differently. that's an approach that makes sense to me. Plus you never see more than 4 pitches from him, and he follows pitchers that look different. I can see why you can't get a bat on him.

    Moyer, I can't figure. You get to bat against him three times, you've seen nobody but him, and everything that he throws is basically the same, with a little wrinkle.

    voodoo

  14. #73
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    but I understand Hoffman. His fastball and changeup have big speed difference, and the pitches move differently. The breaking ball is pretty much same speed as fastball but moves differently. that's an approach that makes sense to me. Plus you never see more than 4 pitches from him, and he follows pitchers that look different. I can see why you can't get a bat on him.

    Moyer, I can't figure. You get to bat against him three times, you've seen nobody but him, and everything that he throws is basically the same, with a little wrinkle.

    voodoo
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  15. #74
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    but I understand Hoffman. His fastball and changeup have big speed difference, and the pitches move differently.
    Ya Hoffman has a devastating changeup.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #75
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    Re: Matt Maloney to start Saturday vs Cubs

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    but I understand Hoffman. His fastball and changeup have big speed difference, and the pitches move differently. The breaking ball is pretty much same speed as fastball but moves differently. that's an approach that makes sense to me. Plus you never see more than 4 pitches from him, and he follows pitchers that look different. I can see why you can't get a bat on him.

    Moyer, I can't figure. You get to bat against him three times, you've seen nobody but him, and everything that he throws is basically the same, with a little wrinkle.

    voodoo
    I tried to figure it out during the Series and my pedestrian observations:

    First, he works up more than you'd expect. After the power explosion of the 80's, pitchers tried to compensate by "keeping the ball down". The hitters adjusted, and adjusted well. A lot of hitters now don't know what to do with balls up. Pete Harnisch had some success with this approach.

    Second, as a fan, I realize that I expect certain pitches subconscously and Moyer fouls that up utterly. Lots of guys pitch backwards, Moyer pitches backwards, forwards, sideways and fractal.....ways.


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