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Thread: Harang

  1. #1
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Harang

    I am really concerned about Aaron Harang. The last two starts he has barely thrown his slider, which is one of his keys to success. Red flag that he is not healthy? Also, I have not seen anyone dismiss Brantley's analysis of his mechanics as being off base, so I assume he was onto something. Did he come up with himself? Will he share his findings with Pole, or does this violate protocol? Is this known but there is nothing Aaron can do about it?

    Just a lot of questions after watching his last two outings, with decreased velocity, avoiding the slider, command issues, and meatball fastballs that were supposed to be down to Fielder and Pujols twice. And, with all due respect to Brantley, if he is providing this analysis over the airwaves, certainly the scouts looking to deal with the Reds see these issues as well, making his value on the market decrease should we need him as a trading chip to improve the club.

    Or, is he just in a funk, an adjustment will click, and he'll be back to low 90s fastball, slider effective pitching that we are accustomed to?

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    Re: Harang

    I can't imagine him throwing over 200 pitches in Houston with a rain delay was a bright idea (particularly after the San Diego debacle last year).

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I am really concerned about Aaron Harang. The last two starts he has barely thrown his slider, which is one of his keys to success. Red flag that he is not healthy? Also, I have not seen anyone dismiss Brantley's analysis of his mechanics as being off base, so I assume he was onto something. Did he come up with himself? Will he share his findings with Pole, or does this violate protocol? Is this known but there is nothing Aaron can do about it?

    Just a lot of questions after watching his last two outings, with decreased velocity, avoiding the slider, command issues, and meatball fastballs that were supposed to be down to Fielder and Pujols twice. And, with all due respect to Brantley, if he is providing this analysis over the airwaves, certainly the scouts looking to deal with the Reds see these issues as well, making his value on the market decrease should we need him as a trading chip to improve the club.

    Or, is he just in a funk, an adjustment will click, and he'll be back to low 90s fastball, slider effective pitching that we are accustomed to?
    I thought he looked fine last night... maybe not as sharp as usual, but lets face it, if you take out the two at bats to Pujols, he threw a CG shutout. So you can't complain about that performance. His stuff isn't as sharp as it used to be, whether that's permanent or not I don't know. But over the course of the season, I'm not worried about him. If we score any amount of runs last night, we win the game.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    I thought he looked fine last night... maybe not as sharp as usual, but lets face it, if you take out the two at bats to Pujols, he threw a CG shutout. So you can't complain about that performance. His stuff isn't as sharp as it used to be, whether that's permanent or not I don't know. But over the course of the season, I'm not worried about him. If we score any amount of runs last night, we win the game.
    I thought he pitched very similar to the way he did when he got rocked in Milwaukee, but got several great glove plays in the infield and 4 DPs. I know that is part of the game, but Aaron has never been a highly defense dependent pitcher historically.

    His high 80s fastball was up most of the night, he threw very few of his out pitch, the slider, and he missed Hanigan's target more than he hit it. In other words, he fit the "its better to be be lucky than good" cliche perfectly last night.

    What I am conjecturing is that Aaron is feeling pain and has had to adjust his mechanics and pitching style to accomodate the pain. I hope my conjecture is dead wrong. I will not be surprised if he "suddenly" misses a start due to "some inflammation and soreness."

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Here's a snapshot of Harang's 2009 to date:
    K/9= 7.63;
    BB/9= 2.00;
    FIP: 4.07;

    So far he's been almost exactly the guy that he was projected to be.

    Here's an average NL starter so far:
    K/9= 6.8;
    BB/9= 3.41;
    FIP= 4.31;

    All of that said, as suggested, he has thrown roughly half as many sliders during the last two starts as he normally would.

    Last night he was having obvious command issues. I confess that I can't remember his Milwaukee outing concerning command. But his slider didn't seem to be doing much last night which might explain why he relied on his fastball.

    His velocity over the last two outings has been fine regarding his fastball (90-92 mph).

    Maybe he's having a mechanical snafu (as per Brantley's comments)? I don't think there is reason to fear an undisclosed injury.

    Here's a view thru the pitch f/x data (a negative vertical value suggests sink; a positive horiz means away from like-handed hitter):

    Code:
    	Horiz.	Vert.  %throw  %strike
    2008	0.42	3.94	24	71
    20-May	3.7	2.27	24	76
    25-May	3.11	2.95	43	66
    30-May	2.12	0	13	55
    4-Jun	0	0.69	13	73
    
    ML ave  2.3     2.5
    Pitch f/x would suggest that movement on his slider has been dramatically different over his last two starts.
    Last edited by jojo; 06-05-2009 at 12:35 PM.
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    I don't dismiss Brantley's comments. He really is struggling with staying in his motion, and that is not unusual for someone as tall as Aaron. Tall guys usually always struggle with their mechanics more than the 6' to 6' 3" guys. More to get in sync and more to get out of sync. Front side really is flying open early which usually is a sign of rushing and getting out of rhythm. If there was a bigger drop in velocity, I would be more concerned.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Here's a snapshot of Harang's 2009 to date:
    K/9= 7.63;
    BB/9= 2.00;
    FIP: 4.07;

    So far he's been almost exactly the guy that he was projected to be.

    Here's an average NL starter so far:
    K/9= 6.8;
    BB/9= 3.41;
    FIP= 4.31;

    All of that said, as suggested, he has thrown roughly half as many sliders during the last two starts as he normally would.

    Last night he was having obvious command issues. I confess that I can't remember his Milwaukee outing concerning command. But his slider didn't seem to be doing much last night which might explain why he relied on his fastball.

    His velocity over the last two outings has been fine regarding his fastball (90-92 mph).

    Maybe he's having a mechanical snafu? I don't think there is reason to fear an undisclosed injury.
    Yea, I hope it is just mechanical. I hope our pitching coach is at least as smart as our TV commentator and has been on top of this and that it is just not come together yet. I was paying pretty close attention to FSN Ohio radar last night and he was only throwing high 80s. Of course, that is anecdotally and FSN's gun seems erratic. But, with his workload, maybe I'm just biased by some self-fulfilling propechies, whereby I am in year 2 of waiting for his breakdown.

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    Member CTA513's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    His slider hasn't been that great this season so it could be the reason he hasn't thrown it as much.

  10. #9
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, I hope it is just mechanical. I hope our pitching coach is at least as smart as our TV commentator and has been on top of this and that it is just not come together yet. I was paying pretty close attention to FSN Ohio radar last night and he was only throwing high 80s. Of course, that is anecdotally and FSN's gun seems erratic. But, with his workload, maybe I'm just biased by some self-fulfilling propechies, whereby I am in year 2 of waiting for his breakdown.
    I don't know which one is right, but Gameday consistantly showed him 91-93 on his fastball throughout the game.
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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, I hope it is just mechanical. I hope our pitching coach is at least as smart as our TV commentator and has been on top of this and that it is just not come together yet. I was paying pretty close attention to FSN Ohio radar last night and he was only throwing high 80s. Of course, that is anecdotally and FSN's gun seems erratic. But, with his workload, maybe I'm just biased by some self-fulfilling propechies, whereby I am in year 2 of waiting for his breakdown.
    Nothing personal, TR, but that's sort of the usual thing around RedsZone where folks tend to thing someone or something will fall apart. While it's certainly possible, I think we expect it way too much. Sometimes guys just have hills and valleys and they work it all out.
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    Re: Harang

    I thought that was his slider he was making Ludwick look goofy on time after time. It was kind of slurvish but definitely not a curveball. Those pitches were excellent IMO.
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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    Nothing personal, TR, but that's sort of the usual thing around RedsZone where folks tend to thing someone or something will fall apart. While it's certainly possible, I think we expect it way too much. Sometimes guys just have hills and valleys and they work it all out.
    But as traderumor pointed out, Harang has thrown significantly fewer sliders over his last two starts. Pitch f/x verifies it and also suggests that the slider's Harang has thrown have behaved differently than Harang's normal offering. That jives at least with my eyes concerning last night.

    Is it coincidence or correlation? I dunno. It very well could just be two outings in a row where Harang's stuff wasn't top notch for whatever reason that will correct itself. But I wish we had a beat writer who would ask Harang questions like why he's threw fewer sliders etc. Harang's answers would be potentially fascinating IMHO.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But as traderumor pointed out, Harang has thrown significantly fewer sliders over his last two starts. Pitch f/x verifies it and also suggests that the slider's Harang has thrown have behaved differently than Harang's normal offering. That jives at least with my eyes concerning last night.

    Is it coincidence or correlation? I dunno. It very well could just be two outings in a row where Harang's stuff wasn't top notch for whatever reason that will correct itself. But I wish we had a beat writer who would ask Harang questions like why he's threw fewer sliders etc. Harang's answers would be potentially fascinating IMHO.
    I recall Harang saying after the Brewers game that he was having a hard time locating his breaking pitches.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But as traderumor pointed out, Harang has thrown significantly fewer sliders over his last two starts. Pitch f/x verifies it and also suggests that the slider's Harang has thrown have behaved differently than Harang's normal offering. That jives at least with my eyes concerning last night.

    Is it coincidence or correlation? I dunno. It very well could just be two outings in a row where Harang's stuff wasn't top notch for whatever reason that will correct itself. But I wish we had a beat writer who would ask Harang questions like why he's threw fewer sliders etc. Harang's answers would be potentially fascinating IMHO.
    I imagine he would not give a revealing answer to such a detailed question in season to keep from revealing trade secrets. Which, if that was the case, I would understand. No sense in doing the scouts' work for them.

  16. #15
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Harang

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I imagine he would not give a revealing answer to such a detailed question in season to keep from revealing trade secrets. Which, if that was the case, I would understand. No sense in doing the scouts' work for them.
    Exactly!
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    Fame is man given: be thankful.
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