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Thread: downloading music

  1. #31
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Bad analogy. We're talking about theft, not civil rights.

    I think this is just justification for stealing.

    I guess I wonder why anyone would buy anything they hadn't heard in the first place and be surprised if they didn't like it in the second.

    Anyhow, consider:

    *Listening to internet/terrestrial radio
    *Going to the band's web/MySpace/Facebook/last.fm/iMeem/etc. site and listening to a preview

    I've always had the uncanny ability to know if I'm going to like a song after hearing about thirty seconds of it. Sometimes, even less. When I hear a bit of a tune I like, I can Shazam it, find out what it is and buy it. If I don't like it, it's a buck...sometimes less. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd buy something I didn't know I liked. I mean, I've always let the song tell me to buy it by hearing it first. I've never bought a track I hadn't heard before.

    This where the "new way" excels. The "album" is no longer the vehicle for sales.

    They've done this for years.

    Tthe "record companies" aren't the only ones hurt by you stealing their music. The indy artists, the producers, the songwriters, the sole proprietor, the self-publishing author, the one-man shareware author, etc are the ones who _need_ and are hurt the most by people who steal their intellectual property.
    How am I hurting anyone in the industry? It results in me buying more CDs than I normally would have.

    Regarding the civil rights thing, let's compare it to alcohol prohibition. Like voting for women, it was illegal at one time to buy alcohol, but does that make it wrong? Right now, it's illegal to download certain music, but I don't think it will always be that way. Ethically, I think it's more wrong to make a crappy record and sell it at a high price like a snake oil salesman than it is to download some CDs and buy the ones you like.

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  3. #32
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I'm a big proponent of Rhapsody. For $15 a month I can listen to just about whatever I want, download to my non ipod player and if I really want to own something I can then purchase a non DRM version.
    I second the Rhapsody recommendation. I'm now on my fifth year as a Rhapsody-to-go subscriber. It's well worth the money now that I'm allowed to have an .mp3 player at work.

    The way I look at it is this: for one annual fee, I can dump my entire 8gb .mp3 player collection and legally put $1600 of new music on it at no cost. I can do this as many times as I want and often do about once a month.

    Also, any time someone says, "check out this band", I can do so instantly and legally.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  4. #33
    WOOOOO!!! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    It's incredibly profitable.
    That's not true. I wrote a paper about it for one of my business classes in November. I used a Wall Street Journal article which described why iTunes was raising prices on popular songs to $1.29. Selling songs for 99 cents was hurting the record industry. I'm on my way out to a softball game, but if you do a little research on the internet you should come to a similar conclusion. Later...
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  5. #34
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    How am I hurting anyone in the industry? It results in me buying more CDs than I normally would have.
    I've heard that one all day until the cows come home. It's just a self-justification for stealing, IMO.

    Regarding the civil rights thing, let's compare it to alcohol prohibition.
    Let's not because it's a poor analogy.

    Ethically, I think it's more wrong to make a crappy record and sell it at a high price like a snake oil salesman than it is to download some CDs and buy the ones you like.
    Logically, the analogy you've constructed is poor.

    We're talking about stealing intellectual property, not civil rights.
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  6. #35
    Plays The Right Way Hap's Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    I haven't paid for a DVD or a CD in about 8-10 years.
    .

  7. #36
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    That's not true. I wrote a paper about it for one of my business classes in November. I used a Wall Street Journal article which described why iTunes was raising prices on popular songs to $1.29. Selling songs for 99 cents was hurting the record industry. I'm on my way out to a softball game, but if you do a little research on the internet you should come to a similar conclusion. Later...
    A number of things come to mind.

    1. That the "record industry" (and by this, I mean the big labels) claim to not be profitable through iTunes probably reflects more on their business practices than iTunes (who I believe have served up over a billions downloads.) As I recall, the $0.30 bump in price for popular tunes is nothing more than a "fad tax."

    2. iTunes isn't the only game in town. There are _many_ legitimate ways to buy music online.

    3. My main concern is that the people who make the music get paid so they can continue to make music. Disagreeing with the practices of the music industry doesn't excuse stealing. Citing a lack of profitability doesn't excuse stealing.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  8. #37
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Downloading music illegally has resulted in me being many more CDs and LPs. As a matter of fact, I bought six CDs at Shake-It today, and I have nearly 3,000 CDs in my collection right now. Without illegal downloads, I wouldn't have heard of half the bands I currently listen to.

    But hey, if you want to say downloading 80GB of music is the same as breaking and entering, go ahead and report me to the cops even though the music industry has practically robbed me with their ridiculous prices and ****ty product.
    Just a couple of quick points:

    1) while it may be true that illegal downloading has motivated you to buy some cds that you may not have purchased otherwise, through using torrents etc you have also enabled many others to steal music and it's not a given that they ever intend to buy anything.

    2) I don't think you can have it both ways. The notion that you're just "borrowing" the music rings a little hollow given your characterization of the music industry above. The above statement implies you illegally download music because you feel it's overpriced and of low quality. Seriously music would be the first product in the world where people who steal it feel obligated to then go buy a copy of what they already have. I just have a really hard time believing that if someone likes a cd they've illegally downloaded, their first inclination is to run to the music store with money in hand rather than simply adding the word "discography" to their next torrent search.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  9. #38
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I always download music, almost always illegally, but I get around to paying for the stuff I like and delete the stuff I don't. I just look at it as a free trial.
    That's pretty much what I do too.

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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm in the stone age with you. I still buy CDs but I'm thinking more and more that that's stupid. First of all each CD probably only has 3 songs that I really want to listen to. Maybe these more educated folks can help us out of the stone age...

    I don't own an Ipod because I don't need to wear my music everywhere I go but I would like to make my own CDs and I know my computer can do it. So here's my question for those in the know:

    Where would you suggest I go to download songs with the intent of transferring them to a CD-R? I-tunes? I'm looking for a site with a lot of music choice and I'll pay for each song. I'm not really into the commitment of monthly payments but maybe I'll have to.
    You don't have to "wear" your music. You can easily hook your iPod up to most car stereos. Lot easier than lugging around a bunch of discs.

  11. #40
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    Re: downloading music

    I've always had the uncanny ability to know if I'm going to like a song after hearing about thirty seconds of it. Sometimes, even less. When I hear a bit of a tune I like, I can Shazam it, find out what it is and buy it.
    Nate, what's "Shazam it" mean?

  12. #41
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    It's what old people call "using the internet".


  13. #42
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    A number of things come to mind.
    Ugh, Nate, you made me look it up!

    Check this article out:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1219...2_1571_leftbox

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    1. That the "record industry" (and by this, I mean the big labels) claim to not be profitable through iTunes probably reflects more on their business practices than iTunes (who I believe have served up over a billions downloads.) As I recall, the $0.30 bump in price for popular tunes is nothing more than a "fad tax."
    ITunes has been the runaway hit of the music business, selling more than five billion song downloads since it started five years ago. But a growing number of record companies are trying to steer clear of Apple Inc.'s behemoth music store, because they say selling single songs on iTunes in some cases is crimping overall music sales.
    ...

    Label executives, managers and artists chafe against the iTunes policy that prevents them from selling an album only. ITunes, with few exceptions, requires that songs be made available separately. Consumers strongly prefer that, though Apple also typically offers a special price for buyers who purchase all the songs on an album.

    Some artists see their albums as one piece of work, and don't want them dismantled. Their handlers believe they can make more by selling complete albums for $10 to $15 than by selling individual songs.

    "In so many ways it's turned our business back into a singles business," says Ken Levitan, Kid Rock's manager. Mr. Levitan says the rise of iTunes is far from being a boon to the industry; instead, he calls it "part of the death knell of the music business."
    I misremembered, as the article is not about the price hike to $1.29 per song and actually about artists like Kid Rock avoiding iTunes and making more money in the process. Nevertheless, it still verifies my claim.

    No, it is not the business practices of the record companies which is crippling the industry. It is, in fact, a combination of lost profits from illegal downloads, and, well, iTunes.

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    2. iTunes isn't the only game in town. There are _many_ legitimate ways to buy music online.
    Avoiding iTunes runs against the conventional logic of the music industry, where it's now taken as an article of faith that digital downloads will eventually replace CDs. But there is growing discomfort with the dominant role iTunes already plays: The store sells 90% or more of digital downloads in the U.S., according to people in the music industry. At the start of this year, iTunes become the largest retailer of music in the U.S., surpassing Wal-Mart Stores Inc., according to research firm NPD Group Inc.
    Yeah, and there are several different operating systems available out there. I use Microsoft Windows, hows about you?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    3. My main concern is that the people who make the music get paid so they can continue to make music. Disagreeing with the practices of the music industry doesn't excuse stealing. Citing a lack of profitability doesn't excuse stealing.
    I agree. I download because I'm a poor college student who doesn't have the money to buy a lot of music. But I like music. And if I can get a lot of it for free without much risk at all, why not? Ethics be damned...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  14. #43
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I misremembered, as the article is not about the price hike to $1.29 per song and actually about artists like Kid Rock avoiding iTunes and making more money in the process. Nevertheless, it still verifies my claim.
    IMO, good for Kid Rock. If he saw a business venture that wasn't working for him and decided to go a different way, bully! That's how it should work.

    No, it is not the business practices of the record companies which is crippling the industry. It is, in fact, a combination of lost profits from illegal downloads, and, well, iTunes.
    The stealing of IP is what we're talking about, yes.

    If "record companies" aren't able to turn a profit while Apple is selling a billion songs, their (the "record companies") business model is flawed.

    As an example, whenever I do a project, the ultimate goal these days isn't to burn 1000 CDs and sell them out the trunk of our car. Rather, the goal is to get the tune placed on the service with the highest visability. Namely, iTunes.

    Yeah, and there are several different operating systems available out there. I use Microsoft Windows, hows about you?
    I use both Mac and PC.

    I agree. I download because I'm a poor college student who doesn't have the money to buy a lot of music. But I like music. And if I can get a lot of it for free without much risk at all, why not? Ethics be damned...
    Sorry, 'clogger but to me that's disappointing. Aside from the stealing, it just tells me that music has lost it's value from the days when I would mow lawns just to buy a cassette of the latest _______ album.

    Sad.
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  15. #44
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I agree that not liking the music industry doesn't make it OK to steal. If I were around in the 1800s, I probably wouldn't have liked the fact that women couldn't vote. That doesn't mean it's OK to not let women vote either.

    Anyway, the point I was making is that I own more CDs because I 'stole' the music first. That's why I listen to more bands--not simply because the internet made it easier. If I don't like the music, I delete it, and if I like it, I buy it. Napster pretty much changed my life in that way. What difference does it make if I download the music and then buy it instead of the other way around?

    Music is art. Would you buy a painting without having seen it? I want to hear the music before I pay for it. What's so wrong in that? Shouldn't the seller want her/his customers to be satisfied? If not, then that's a very dishonest business imo.

    The industry has changed, and it's time for adjustments to be made. Instead of record companies relying so heavily on record sales, maybe they should put more focus on tours and merchandise.
    You have the choice to "view the painting" as you put it. Go to the library and check the CD out. Go on amazon and listen to a preview. Tune in to kexp or some other internet radio outlet. Go to the artist's website or myspace page. Painting viewed.

    If, on the other hand, you want to drive a car around for three months to see whether it suits your needs, that's a different story. You can test drive it at the lot, but you can't keep it until you've decided whether it's really for you.

    Sorry, but your argument is completely and utterly hollow. You download music because you want to enjoy the benefits of ownership on your own selfish terms. You want it when you want it, for how long you want it and for how much you want it. Don't give us some nonsense about how it's art and somehow operates under different rules.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  16. #45
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    Re: downloading music

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    You have the choice to "view the painting" as you put it. Go to the library and check the CD out. Go on amazon and listen to a preview. Tune in to kexp or some other internet radio outlet. Go to the artist's website or myspace page. Painting viewed.
    Or go to Pandora and create a station.....

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    If, on the other hand, you want to drive a car around for three months to see whether it suits your needs, that's a different story. You can test drive it at the lot, but you can't keep it until you've decided whether it's really for you.

    Sorry, but your argument is completely and utterly hollow. You download music because you want to enjoy the benefits of ownership on your own selfish terms. You want it when you want it, for how long you want it and for how much you want it. Don't give us some nonsense about how it's art and somehow operates under different rules.
    We always hear about the jerky record companies as part of the justification but we rarely hear about how the artists are supposed to get paid if the jerky record companies don't get paid.
    Last edited by jojo; 06-10-2009 at 09:50 AM.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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