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Thread: Mike Leake

  1. #61
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Why should we? It's a perfectly acceptable thing to assume and or discuss. You want to shut us up, come with a compelling argument that we are wrong. Last year is last year and since it ended we have played it extremely tight to the vest fiscally speaking. Being a bit more conservative is fine in this economy but there are still games to be played and won and they should have spent more or spent those limited funds more wisely.
    You can continue to speculate and look like someone uninformed. It's annoying to see speculative and baseless rants that don't present facts, but it's your choice.

    I'd point you in the direction of Alonso last year (who did have noted high financial demands last year) and the Latin draft last year (Duran and Rodriquez last season where the Reds spent quite a bit of coin). How about JC Sulbaran? Wasn't that $500K for a 35th rounder? That was way above slot. The Reds signed most of their draft picks last year and I didn't see any knowledgeable commentator/website citing signability or frugality for the Reds picks.

    Now, let's hear your argument for how the Reds have been frugal with the draft(ing), particularly with some facts.
    Last edited by fearofpopvol1; 06-10-2009 at 12:28 AM.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    You can continue to speculate and look like someone uninformed. It's annoying to see speculative and baseless rants that don't present facts, but it's your choice.

    I'd point you in the direction of Alonso (who did have noted high financial demands last year) and the Latin draft (Duran and Rodriquez last season where the Reds spent quite a bit of coin). How about JC Sulbaran? Wasn't that $500K for a 35th rounder? That was way above slot. The Reds signed most of their draft picks last year and I didn't see any knowledgeable commentator/website citing signability or frugality for the Reds picks.

    Now, let's hear your argument for how the Reds have been frugal with the draft(ing), particularly with some facts.
    I'd say the Reds made the right choice today. Leake is a darn good pitcher and he will probably sign for slot. Now you can go and spread your money around later and get some talented players to sign late. That is a way to get a depleted system stocked fast.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  4. #63
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    You can continue to speculate and look like someone uninformed. It's annoying to see speculative and baseless rants that don't present facts, but it's your choice.

    I'd point you in the direction of Alonso (who did have noted high financial demands last year) and the Latin draft (Duran and Rodriquez last season where the Reds spent quite a bit of coin). How about JC Sulbaran? Wasn't that $500K for a 35th rounder? That was way above slot. The Reds signed most of their draft picks last year and I didn't see any knowledgeable commentator/website citing signability or frugality for the Reds picks.

    Now, let's hear your argument for how the Reds have been frugal with the draft(ing), particularly with some facts.
    Nice try to spin it into something it isn't/wasn't. I said this year they are being frugal, that's all.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Nice try to spin it into something it isn't/wasn't. I said this year they are being frugal, that's all.
    How would you know what the Reds are going to do late in this years draft? If they sign some players late above slot than I would say that this is not a signability draft.

    I'd say there is no way to judge Leake or anyone else as a signability pick at this point. Just wait to see if they go above slot again this year.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  6. #65
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Nice try to spin it into something it isn't/wasn't. I said this year they are being frugal, that's all.
    And I'm asking you to back it up or prove it. The only thing you throw out is Crow. That's it. There's no basis to your argument. And if Crow was so great, why wasn't he picked right after the Reds picked? Or 2 or 3 or 4 picks after? I don't believe for a second that it was 100% signability. There were plenty of teams picking after the Reds that have money.

  7. #66
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    Re: Mike Leake

    I am trying to figure out the difference between Mike Leak, Aaron Crow and Tyler Matzek.

    Fastball - Crow gets the edge here, but Leak and Matzek currently throw the same velocities.
    Offspeed pitches - Leake wins easily here with two above average to plus pitches, followed by Crow and then Matzek who has one offspeed pitch thats inconsistent right now but shows itself as a potential plus pitch (which would match Crow's one and fall behind Leake's 2).
    Control - Leake wins in a landslide. Crow probably goes second with Matzek a close third.
    Projectability - Matzek, then Crow and last would be Leake, but is it because Leake doesn't have a high ceiling or is it because he is just a much better pitcher than the other two guys right now (especially Matzek)?

    So those who aren't in favor of Leake because we 'passed' on other guys (in particular the two examples above), please chime in with what I am missing here.

  8. #67
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    And if Crow was so great, why wasn't he picked right after the Reds picked? Or 2 or 3 or 4 picks after?
    Reds picked 8th. Crow was drafted 12th.

    So yes, he was drafted 4 picks after.
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Reds picked 8th. Crow was drafted 12th.

    So yes, he was drafted 4 picks after.
    You're right...I thought it was 14th for some reason...but the point still stands.

  10. #69
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    And I'm asking you to back it up or prove it. The only thing you throw out is Crow. That's it. There's no basis to your argument. And if Crow was so great, why wasn't he picked right after the Reds picked? Or 2 or 3 or 4 picks after? I don't believe for a second that it was 100% signability. There were plenty of teams picking after the Reds that have money.
    Like I have said, the proof is in what they have done since the end of last season virtually nothing. All the proof is there, so it is now up to those of you who want me to stop talking about it to disprove it. Why am I not allowed to be upset that my team now refuses to spend money? Why am I not allowed to discuss my views? And if I defend myself or my beliefs then I am just beating a dead horse or being stubborn. The proof is all there and some just haven't come to a place that they are willing to accept it as the truth.

    And if you have read my views you'd know that I'm blowing up now because of FA, the lack of a 25 man roster, the rumors that we aren't true suitors in the latin american market and now drafting more slot or under types and no over slot talent. Too me that equals enough to be upset about. I mean some people wouldn't call them frugal if they had a press conference announcing they were. Sorry if I use RZ as a sounding board about all things Reds related and respond to those who ask me what my problem is.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Like I have said, the proof is in what they have done since the end of last season virtually nothing. All the proof is there, so it is now up to those of you who want me to stop talking about it to disprove it. Why am I not allowed to be upset that my team now refuses to spend money? Why am I not allowed to discuss my views? And if I defend myself or my beliefs then I am just beating a dead horse or being stubborn. The proof is all there and some just haven't come to a place that they are willing to accept it as the truth.

    And if you have read my views you'd know that I'm blowing up now because of FA, the lack of a 25 man roster, the rumors that we aren't true suitors in the latin american market and now drafting more slot or under types and no over slot talent. Too me that equals enough to be upset about. I mean some people wouldn't call them frugal if they had a press conference announcing they were. Sorry if I use RZ as a sounding board about all things Reds related and respond to those who ask me what my problem is.
    If you think Crow was the better pick...fine. I have no problem with that. But to say that Crow was passed on because of financial reasons...that simply is just not known. The Reds were not cheap with the draft last year and I don't think that changes this year.

    Now, if you want to say they're cheap with the 25 man roster...you might have a case there.

  12. #71
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    Re: Mike Leake

    I liked the Mike Leake pick a lot. He's got good stuff, plus command, and is very polished. He should be ready to pitch in the majors by 2011 and projects as a #2/3 starter.

    I've com around some on the Brad Boxberger pick. I would have preferred Tanner Scheppers or Andy Oliver, but Boxberger has solid stuff. His fastball ranges from 91-94 and he mixes in a good slider and average changeup. Baseball America liked him as a supplemental pick.

    I like Billy Hamilton. He's a great athlete who will stick at shortstop. His bat is raw but he a lot of potential.

    Joseph has some interesting numbers. I wonder if they plan on moving him into the rotation ala Zach Stewart? His stuff seems to be similar to Stewart's.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    So those who aren't in favor of Leake because we 'passed' on other guys (in particular the two examples above), please chime in with what I am missing here.
    Admittedly, I'm no expert in any of this -- but when experts say things like:

    "He's not going to be a guy that strikes a lot of guys out..."

    "...without a single knockout pitch..."

    "...more or less finished product right now..."

    "Will not overpower. Delivery sometimes is a little too max effort."

    "He has a limited ceiling because of his stuff..."

    I become less than enamored with a pick. I understand the strategy -- go for the more "surefire" thing and stay away from the higher risk/reward players -- but I don't like it with a top-10 pick. Take the player that projects to the best player, not the player that projects to the safest player available.
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  14. #73
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Except Leake does have an out pitch. His changeup and slider are both above average to plus pitches.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  15. #74
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Buckley on Leake
    Posted by JohnFay at 6/9/2009 7:49 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

    Here's what Reds scouting director Chris Buckley had to say aobut the Reds first pick:

    What can you tell us about Mike Leake? Hes a very polished college pitcher; throws four pitches. The numbers are just off the charts. Hes a very good baseball player. Hes one of their better position players. This guy hit the ground running in college. Hes a groundball pitcher. Were thrilled to have him.

    Do you consider him a future starting pitcher? Oh yeah, absolutely.

    What does he throw? Eighty-eight [mph], 93, everyone once in a while 94. Slider, curveball, changeup. Hes a very polished guy, low maintenance college pitcher. Those numbers to aluminum bats are pretty scary.

    Are you happy or surprised that he made it to No. 8? I think if he was 6-feet-2 he would have probably would have for sure gone before us. [Dustin] Pedroia is 5-feet-8, sometimes they come in smaller packages.

    What type of signability do you guys expect from Leake? Hes pitched his team to the College World Series, so theres nothing we can do with him for a while, anyways. Hes on a very good college team and theyre still playing.

    What is it that he does really well that excites you guys? Its his command and how polished he is. He throws four pitches for strikes. He can throw them at anytime. Hes an outstanding fielder. Hes got an outstanding pickoff move. He has all the intangibles that good pitchers have.

    You said this was a good pitcher draft Yeah, at the top, once you get past [Dustin] Ackley and [Tony] Sanchez, whos probably the best catcher, its much stronger pitching for sure at the top of the draft.

    When you told GM Walt Jocketty you wanted Leake, what was his reaction? He was thrilled. First of all, we got the kid [Zachary] Stewart last year from Texas. This guys a ground ball pitcher. Thats a good formula here.

    As a college pitcher, do you think hes going to start higher in the minor leagues? I would think so, but again hes 16-1. So hes pitched a fair amount of baseball this year. You dont want to rush him and you dont want to put him in a situation where you could get him hurt.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  16. #75
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Mike Leake

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    If you think Crow was the better pick...fine. I have no problem with that. But to say that Crow was passed on because of financial reasons...that simply is just not known. The Reds were not cheap with the draft last year and I don't think that changes this year.

    Now, if you want to say they're cheap with the 25 man roster...you might have a case there.
    I don't really have a problem with Mike Leake so much. My problem is if you are gonna take a #3 there fine, but then to come right back and take a #4 to MR arm next with some serious talent available is an indication that cost is an issue. And I am not happy with that as a fan because too me it represents a step back from where we were headed last summer.

    But yes my problem isn't strictly draft related it's just being cheap overall. My blow up might be premature as they may spend a bunch of money in the latin american market, they may be saving their money for a mid season acquistion and if so I'd eat crow. But when you start seeing early and everything points that way you come to expect that those things in the future you had hope for are likely gonna be more of the same. So when everyone blows up at the deadline because we stood pat, I'll speak my mind but most of my blowing up will have happened in advance (now).
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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