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Thread: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

  1. #1
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    Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Who to start?

    I can understand why Dusty won't start Dickerson against lefties. He's never really been awesome against lefties. But against righties?? I don't get it.

    Dickerson's defense is SIGNIFICANTLY better, his plate discipline is much better, his power is a lot better. And I'm talking CF...where Dickerson's defense is above average.

    It must be the contract Willy has that gives him precedence.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Who to start?

    I can understand why Dusty won't start Dickerson against lefties. He's never really been awesome against lefties. But against righties?? I don't get it.

    .
    In 41 career PA's vs LHP, Dickerson has an OBP of .375.

    Small sample size sure, but way better then WT's .317 vs LHP.

    Dickerson should be starting in CF every game.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Taveras might be the worst starting position player in baseball. I honestly can't think of a worse player off the top of my head.

    Dickerson should start in CF. I'd try my best to trade Taveras, though I doubt anyone wants him. If that's the case, he becomes the fifth outfielder.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Dickerson against RH's, Stubbs against lefties and send Willie somewhere he can hit against our staff as many times as possible.

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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    In 41 career PA's vs LHP, Dickerson has an OBP of .375.

    Small sample size sure, but way better then WT's .317 vs LHP.

    Dickerson should be starting in CF every game.
    His minor league stats don't favor that OBP against lefties. I think he's 1 for 11 or 12 or something like that too? I can understand using Willy against lefties.

  7. #6
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    For now Dickerson should get the nod because Willy is lost. I was fine with starting Willy early, especially when he was hot but now it's lunacy for Dusty to keep playing him. This is a test of Dusty's managerial skills. Will he let his "loyalty" hurt this team?

  8. #7
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    This really isn't a debate. Taveras has proven over 1000's of at bats that's he not a very productive offensive player. Dickerson, in his limited opportunity, has played well. Defensively, they're comparable.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    This really isn't a debate. Taveras has proven over 1000's of at bats that's he not a very productive offensive player. Dickerson, in his limited opportunity, has played well. Defensively, they're comparable.
    I disagree. I think Dickerson is a much, much better defender. Unlike Taveras, he gets great jumps and takes nice routes. UZR (and my eyes) absolutely love Dickerson in CF.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  10. #9
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    More criticism of Taveras? He can't hit, his bad routes, it's hard to believe how fans can just repeat these criticisms of this player time and again.

    Taveras can be effective when his legs are working at full strength. He was effective in April, ineffective in May. His issues are obvious.

    The Reds made a decision in the off season that he could enhance the team by virtue of his particular skills. In May, Taveras went into a deep slump and he hasn't come out of it. And, to make matters worse, he got hurt.

    Having signed him, and desirous of making his abilities work for them, the Reds are now trying him again. They figure if he's healthy he might come out of the slump soon and they want to give him that opportunity.

    The Reds didn't stick with Corey Patterson forever, they didn't play him due to loyalty, they sent him down and he only played for them again when the team was shorthanded due to trades and injuries. If Taveras continues his slump, he'll be benched as well.

    Meanwhile, again tonight, the team isn't hitting, it has three hits in nine innings against Nationals pitching. Taveras is one guy. Nobody else is hitting very much either.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-10-2009 at 11:01 PM.

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    I assume this is a rhetorical question
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #11
    Hardscrabble wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    More criticism of Taveras? He can't hit, his bad routes, it's hard to believe how fans can just repeat these criticisms of this player time and again.

    Taveras can be effective when his legs are working at full strength. He was effective in April, ineffective in May. His issues are obvious.

    The Reds made a decision in the off season that he could enhance the team by virtue of his particular skills. In May, Taveras went into a deep slump and he hasn't come out of it. And, to make matters worse, he got hurt.

    Having signed him, and desirous of making his abilities work for them, the Reds are now trying him again. They figure if he's healthy he might come out of the slump soon and they want to give him that opportunity.

    The Reds didn't stick with Corey Patterson forever, they didn't play him due to loyalty, they sent him down and he only played for them again when the team was shorthanded due to trades and injuries. If Taveras continues his slump, he'll be benched as well.

    Meanwhile, again tonight, the team isn't hitting, it has three hits in nine innings against Nationals pitching. Taveras is one guy. Nobody else is hitting very much either.
    For the most part, you've been spot on about everything this season.

    This analysis, however, I cannot agree with.

    In fact, I don't know if I've ever disagreed with you more about anything. I mean that with the upmost respect.

    I'm actually a little shocked.

    Seriously. Your best argument FOR Willy Taveras is that others haven't hit?

    Holy cow.

    You can do WAYYYY better than that.

    That might say all that needs to be said about one Corey Taveras.
    Pray for Rain.

  13. #12
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    The answer today is the same as it was before Taveras was sign..Dickerson.
    Go Gators!

  14. #13
    Red's fan mbgrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    2009 stats:

    Taveras: 209 PAs, .250/.307/.315 for an OPS of .622. 1 HR, 12 of 15 in SBs. UZR is .4

    Dickerson: 145 PAs, .246/.375/.364 for an OPS of .739. 2 HR, 2 of 4 in SBs. UZR is 4.3 (for CF).

    FWIW, one 2008 stat to compare with:
    Corey Patterson: 392 PAs, .205/.238/.344 for an OPS of .582. 10 HRs, 14 of 23 in SBs. UZR was .4

    I can't help but wonder how Dickerson would do playing more often again. He had that terrible slump to start the year, but he is hitting .302 the last month, bringing his average up from .197 to .246. UZR shows that he is a very strong ceneter fielder too. Trade Willy T.....
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  15. #14
    On the brink of disaster acredsfan's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    I'm all for giving more playing time to Dickerson, but let's not be too quick to trade Willy Taveras. Yeah, he may not be an outstanding player, but I'm not willing to place all of my trust in the rookie just yet. People can argue all they want about how Willy isn't as good of a hitter, but Dickerson hasn't proven crap yet. He's had one decent month at the plate this year, but his average is still under .250. He went through a spell where he swung at everything, but his OBP is a decent .375. Still, way too soon to declare him the answer in CF for the season. Knee jerk reactions are a terrible way to run a franchise. Let's remember that many people were calling for Dickerson to sit when Nix was showing promise in LF.

    I'm in no way implying that Willy will be the answer in CF, but at the very least he's got the experience to take the job back over if Dickerson would faulter. CF is one of the areas that Walt should look to upgrade, but honestly it's rare to find a CFer who can play offense and defense.
    "I thought I'd get your theories, mock them, then embrace my own. The usual." -- House

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  16. #15
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    If you are going to judge Chris Dickerson off his batting average you will never be happy with him as a player.
    "The guy I think could be really good in center is Adam Dunn. If someone asked me if Dunn could be a center fielder for the next 10 years, if he started working on it, no one could explain to me why he couldn’t do it." - Brad Kullman


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