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Thread: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

  1. #76
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Great stuff, RMR. I've really enjoyed reading these last few pages.
    Last edited by Razor Shines; 06-12-2009 at 07:16 PM.

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  3. #77
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    if Dickerson can't find his way into the lineup in a game against Hochevar that has a DH I have no idea when he would.

    Like I said when they signed Willy T, it was a flat awful signing because he was going to play
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #78
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Reds Centerfield
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    .249 .299 .401 .700

    2009
    .246 .300 .320 .619
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #79
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Reds Centerfield
    2008
    .249 .299 .401 .700

    2009
    .246 .300 .320 .619
    Yes but the defense has been substantially improved in center this year...... oh wait....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #80
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Tonight while hitting leadoff Taveras saw a total of 8 pitches in 4 at bats. In the first and 9th he bunted on the first pitch each time. In the third he took a ball before grounding out on the 2nd pitch. In the 6th he took a ball and a strike before grounding out. I know he is slumping but that reeks of a batter who has no confidence about their ability to fall behind and make contact or of a scouting report that said you must swing at the first strike you see or else. I am not surprised at how bad the offense is. I am surprised that they are able to put up as many runs as they do.

  7. #81
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Willy Taveras OPS is .595

    Not a "league average" .760 or so for a CF.

    Not an "OK if he's cheap and plays good "D" .725

    Not an "all right if I have no one else" .700

    not even a "well he's a bench player who plays a PR/Defensive replacement/designated bunter role" .650

    he has a "why am I even in the majors at all?" .595.

    Arguing that he should start over anyone is beyond reason. The Reds have 8 players in the organization to turn to in CF if Dickerson should prove to be a total bust who would provide a better game than Willy (Nix, Bruce, Hairston, McDonald, Hopper, Stubbs, Heisey and Henry) and every one of them is as good or better defensively.

    A number of baseball figures did stupid things to ruin their legacy. Pete Rose gambled, Joe Jackson conspired, a whole bunch juiced, Bill Buckner misplayed a ground ball. Walt Jocketty may go down as the guy who signed Willy.
    And to think that Walt wanted to actually make a trade for him before he was released.

    All I can say is wowwwww.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  8. #82
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    If Willy is going to bat...he should be batting 7th or 8th at the very least...definitely not 1st or 2nd.

  9. #83
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    If Willy is going to bat...he should be batting 7th or 8th at the very least for Dayton...definitely not 1st or 2nd.
    Fixed.

  10. #84
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Fixed.
    Let's not get too carried away. His OBP for his entire minor league career was almost .370.

    He's been bad as of late (and he's not great in general)...I don't think anyone is denying that. But Willy's career OBP is better than nearly every Reds player's OBP is this year...excluding Votto (who has been out for a while now), Gomes (who has 34 Abs), Hannigan and Dickerson.

  11. #85
    Member New Fever's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Let's not get too carried away. His OBP for his entire minor league career was almost .370.

    He's been bad as of late (and he's not great in general)...I don't think anyone is denying that. But Willy's career OBP is better than nearly every Reds player's OBP is this year...excluding Votto (who has been out for a while now), Gomes (who has 34 Abs), Hannigan and Dickerson.
    Phillips has a higher OBP as well.

  12. #86
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Let's not get too carried away. His OBP for his entire minor league career was almost .370.

    He's been bad as of late (and he's not great in general)...I don't think anyone is denying that. But Willy's career OBP is better than nearly every Reds player's OBP is this year...excluding Votto (who has been out for a while now), Gomes (who has 34 Abs), Hannigan and Dickerson.
    You can add Hairston to that list. And he's only a point above Hernandez. Not very impressive. But I absolutely do admire your persistence, it can't be easy to try to come up with arguments defending Willy at this point. Creativity is the key.

  13. #87
    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by New Fever View Post
    Phillips has a higher OBP as well.
    Unforunately Captain Plate Patience's career OBP is only .311. Thus, lower than Willy T's career .327.

  14. #88
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Let's not get too carried away. His OBP for his entire minor league career was almost .370.

    He's been bad as of late (and he's not great in general)...I don't think anyone is denying that. But Willy's career OBP is better than nearly every Reds player's OBP is this year...excluding Votto (who has been out for a while now), Gomes (who has 34 Abs), Hannigan and Dickerson.
    Willy's OPS is is now .582.

    I suspect that Willy's career OBP is inflated by one season where he got an abnormally high number of bunt hits to drive it up. I'd guess his true skill level is somewhere below that (I'd guess around .300 is a reasonable expectation). When looking at OBP, its easy to forget that a player's value can't be judged by OBP alone. There is also a power element to a guy's offensive production and Willy is completely devoid of any power. Even if his career number is what we could expect from this point forward, his complete lack of power would still make that inadequate (no matter where he hits in the line-up). Guys like Nix, Phillips and Bruce can carry a lower OBP than guy's like Taveras or Hopper would need to have because they contribute heavily to the offense through power production. Ideally, they would all OBP above .350, but Phillips, for example, has shown that he can be a positive offensive contributor with an OBP below that. Willy, OTOH, would need to be significantly higher than that. IMO, if Willy were to OBP .330 and steal 60 bases, he'd still be a drag on the offense because he just doesn't make up for his complete lack of power by doing the things that he does do. Willy's current OBP of .288, IMO, is about 90 to 100 points below where it would need to be for Willy to avoid being a negative.
    Last edited by mth123; 06-13-2009 at 09:51 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #89
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    But Willy's career OBP is better than nearly every Reds player's OBP is this year...excluding Votto (who has been out for a while now), Gomes (who has 34 Abs), Hannigan and Dickerson.
    And that is a very telling sign of the construction of this current team, that, from an offensive standpoint looks like it came straight from the Island of Misfit Toys.

    In the NL, they are bottom tier, and very near the cellar, in almost every major offensive category. Just from observing them, and I've watched practically every game, they are even a mediocre pitcher's dream team to face because they show no patience whatsoever, up there hacking away, and do nothing more then provide an opposing team's INF with GB practice.

    Yeah, we definitely miss Votto. But even when he comes back this team is going to struggle because when one looks at the offensive numbers of batting #1 and #2 (table setters) - it should make most sick. It's simply totally unacceptable, and this this is the team that Walt and Dusty built.

    Now not to despair, because it is fixable. But IMO, I don't think Baker can. Not when I listen to some aspects of his philosophical approach.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  16. #90
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Willy is 0 for June and Dickerson can't buy a PA>

    flying flip.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."


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