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Thread: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

  1. #121
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Seriously though, before this thread morphs into a rehashing of the virtues/evils of OPS, there is no need.

    Bruce needs to get on base more. That said, everything he brings to the plate has still resulted in production at a level roughly equal to a league average hitter.

    That's just a fact. It's neither good nor bad in and of itself. It neither implies nor denies anything about the purity of the route Bruce has taken to get there. It's just acknowledging where he's at.

    Dude needs to get on base more to realize his potential. Sure. Despite that, when looking at his glove and bat, Dude has been a slightly above average player so far in '09.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #122
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    Who would have thought that Ltlabner's sig line would be too optimistic?


    Props to Caveat Emperor who actually penned my sig line.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  4. #123
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    False choices.

    Stubbs or Heisey. One of them up, one of them dealt. Time to get off the pot, Walt.

  5. #124
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    I wish someone could explain why Dickerson is not the everyday centerfielder. It's just nonsense. Put him on the bench for 2 days while facing right handed pitchers. I just don't get it. He must not be Dusty's guy.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  6. #125
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redlegs View Post
    No, I love speed and defense. The problem is he's misplayed a few balls in center so his defense is replaceable, IMO. He has speed, but he hasn't been an agressive base runner. He wanted to swipe 100 bags this season. He'd better hurry.

    I'm not one to go hating on our players. I just think his presence in the lineup has not given this club an advantage thus far. But when he's in there, I'm rooting for him.

    You're right. I was being faceitious. All during the offseason all we heard was, "Speed and Defense." But, as you said, the defense isn't that good and his speed isn't doing us a lot of good right now.
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  7. #126
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    I wish someone could explain why Dickerson is not the everyday centerfielder. It's just nonsense. Put him on the bench for 2 days while facing right handed pitchers. I just don't get it. He must not be Dusty's guy.
    In 1 word...money.

  8. #127
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    ... My take on Taveras is that he is a useful player when his legs are in top shape. His contributions are based on speed. I've seen that speed as an effective weapon for the Reds and, in previous years, for other teams.

    I don't think Taveras' speed has been there for some time now due to injury. He's not the same player and I don't know why the Reds haven't just DL'd him and let him get to full strength. They have plenty of backups who can play centerfield.

    The trashing by some of Taveras' defense, the complete focus on this player to the exclusion of other slumping Reds is, IMO, just typical fan overkill. ...
    I can agree with this. That Taveras turned out to be our biggest offseason acquisition for the outfield automatically made him the '09 whipping boy. Nevermind the (lack of) production we're getting from the other positions, Taveras being in the lineup too much, or even that it could be argued that Nix is outproducing Bruce. Hell Alex Gonzalez isn't doing much offensively but he actually has more doubles than Bruce in 60+ fewer plate appearances.

    On May 13th, the Reds were 20-14. They had just finished a 3 game sweep of Arizona in which they had 26 runs and 38 hits. Since then they are 11-17 after being swept, and outscored 18-6, by the Royals. I didn't think the Reds would have a record as bad as the last few seasons (still don't) but thoughts that they could win 15+ more games than last year to have a shot at the playoffs seemed a little optimistic.

  9. #128
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Reds have a habit of avoiding player moves during road trips. Just my sense that they usually wait until they come home.

    Reds now have 13 pitchers. The reason given was the DH -- not much pinch hitting, fewer player moves, good to keep more pitchers fewer hitters.

    No DH for the next week. Two series at GABP. No need for 13 pitchers.

    Reds should make a move. Hopefully it is a semi-meaningful move to add someone who may help offensively. Not expecting a big trade but there should be some shuffling.

    Stubbs is hot right now. Taveras is ice cold. Maybe we see Stubbs for a week and WT sits or even gets DL'd. Or maybe it will just be Castillo again as the extra switch hitter in reserve. Or a smallish trade.

  10. #129
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Sutton for a look at 3b?

  11. #130
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    Sutton for a look at 3b?

    Or Stubbs and Sutton come up. Some combo of WT, Rosales, Lincoln, or possibly Burton to AAA or DL?

  12. #131
    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Bruce has a .461 SLG and a .299 OBP.

    If you want to add them up and say he is a .760 guy, league average, that's fine -- so be it.

    I choose to view him as a hitter with obviously excellent power, 15 home runs, but whose inability to get on base must improve for him to achieve his potential. I remember a day when a .212 BA hitter would almost never be starting in the major leagues.

    Depends on how you view it. To me, the total OPS number doesn't tell the story in Bruce's particular case.
    Again, I think you expect OPS to measure something it doesn't.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #132
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Or Stubbs and Sutton come up. Some combo of WT, Rosales, Lincoln, or possibly Burton to AAA or DL?
    Why would the Reds bring up Stubbs? The already have Nix, Taveras, Dickerson, Gomes, Bruce, and Hairston to play the outfield.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  14. #133
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Taveras has gone 33 at-bats without a hit. I saw on CBS Sportsline's fantasy update on him that's the longest hitless stretch for the Reds since Dennis Menke in 1973.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #134
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    I'd like to see CD get the next 200 at-bats so that we can come to a better assessment of his role, present and future, on this team. It's clear to me that whatever possible difference there might be between WT and CD is more than overridden by the need for us to get more information on CD's future. WT's capabilities are pretty well known at this point.

  16. #135
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Willy Taveras or Chris Dickerson in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Taveras has gone 33 at-bats without a hit. I saw on CBS Sportsline's fantasy update on him that's the longest hitless stretch for the Reds since Dennis Menke in 1973.
    And he hasn't walked in a game since May 23rd. That's 2 singles, 1 double and 0 walks in his last 49 plate appearances. That's pitcher material.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
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