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Thread: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

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    Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500
    Posted by JohnFay at 6/14/2009 2:10 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

    Dusty Baker was talking about Willy Taveras but it bled into talk about the team in general:

    “Sometimes you want it right now,” Baker said. “But sometimes it takes longer than people want to give it. This is where teaching part comes in.
    “Everyone wants in first place by five games,” Baker said. “We said this is going to be an ongoing process. Do we want it now? Oh heck, yeah. We have to realize we’re in process of teaching and making guys better. That’s the whole realization of the organization here. We want to do it for the long run. We’ve got a young team and we’re going to be inconsistent. We said that right in the very beginning.

    “You don’t like it, but it’s the situation we’re in. We’re not the Yankees with a whole bunch of veteran guys and a few kids.”

    “Quite frankly, some of kids aren’t kids. They’re inexperienced as far as the big leagues. In reality, Jay Bruce and (Johnny) Cueto are the only real kids.”

    “You have a bunch 26 to 28 year olds who don’t have much big league experience.”

    It was pointed out that the Reds drafted eight players older than Bruce this week.

    “Bruce is playing with all upper classmen,” Baker said. “By the time his graduating class gets here, he’ll have four or five years of big league failures and successes. That’s when he’ll really blossom – when they can’t trick him anymore.”

    “Patience is hard to sell,” Baker said. “It’s something I need continue to be. Stay with the long-term plan. But we need short-term success to satisfy me and everyone esle.”

    Baker know the Reds coudl be buried in the standing rather than 2 1/2 games out.

    "If Everyone else wasn't losing . . . We're fortunate to be where we are (in the standings). That's why today’s game is big.” Baker said. “We fought and fought to get to .500. We want to stay above it.”

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    After today's loss, the Reds are back to .500 for the first time since they were 10-10 on April 28th. They haven't been below .500 since they were 2-3 on April 12th.

    I know I'm probably going to get mocked for this, but why not call up some of the young guys and give them a chance?

    Drew Stubbs is arguably the best defensive outfielder in the minor leagues and is hitting .299/.387/.428 - .815 with 20 stolen bases in Triple-A. Bring him up to play some center field.

    Drew Sutton is hitting .260/.383/.532 - .915 in Triple-A. He's a switch hitter and he can play all four infield positions.

    Todd Frazier is hitting .332/.375/.513 - .887 in Double-A. He's only in AA, so he may need some time in Louisville first. Edit - as stated in another thread, I'd immediately shift him back to third base and being him up in a couple months if he adapts well to 3B.
    Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 06-14-2009 at 09:06 PM.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Af

    I know I'm probably going to get mocked for this, but why not call up some of the young guys and give them a chance?
    .
    I would mock you but you are right.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    That's run-up-the-white-flag firesale sellers in the cellar talk.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Would you rather have Dickerson or Stubbs in center vs RHP? IMO, they are essentially the same player (they just bat from different sides of the plate). Stubbs could definitely see some time in CF vs LHP, but maybe the Reds would rather him get everyday at-bats in AAA to continue his development. If that's the case I can't really fault them.

    I think Sutton would essentially play the same role as Hairston (OK bat and not so good defense at multiple positions).

    Frazier needs AAA time and a position.

    IMO the only guy in the minors who has definitely earned a call-up is Roenicke, but unfortuantely for him the bullpen has been a strength. So he gets to wait.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Would you rather have Dickerson or Stubbs in center vs RHP? IMO, they are essentially the same player (they just bat from different sides of the plate). Stubbs could definitely see some time in CF vs LHP, but maybe the Reds would rather him get everyday at-bats in AAA to continue his development. If that's the case I can't really fault them.

    I think Sutton would essentially play the same role as Hairston (OK bat and not so good defense at multiple positions).

    Frazier needs AAA time and a position.

    IMO the only guy in the minors who has definitely earned a call-up is Roenicke, but unfortuantely for him the bullpen has been a strength. So he gets to wait.
    Please accept some congratulations for an excellent post. Ok, I disagree on a couple of small points, but it is a fine post.

    The Reds are at .500. They have just played 13 of 16 on the road. They are finally going home for a stretch of games. This isn't the time to turn the ballclub into a tryout camp.

    Hopefully we've learned from guys like Bruce how tough it is to put up good major league numbers. Look at how Rosales has struggled. Teams need to wait until players are ready and there is a proper role for them.

    Stubbs should play this year at AAA. Bring him up in September. Hopefully he'll be ready then to make the team next year. Same with Bailey, perhaps August if a trade opens a rotation spot. But don't rush these guys out of frustration because of a tough stretch.

    I don't agree that Stubbs and Dickerson are the same player, Stubbs doesn't have the strikeout problem. And I think Hairston is pretty good defensively, but he belongs at second or even short, not at third. But these are quibbles, your basic point is important and I agree with it.

    And I also give kudos to Dusty for his mature attitude toward the ballclub. It is developing, it hit a rough patch, now hopefully some guys will return from injury soon and the team will improve.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-14-2009 at 05:41 PM.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Please accept some congratulations for an excellent post. Ok, I disagree on a couple of small points, but it is a fine post.

    The Reds are at .500. They have just played 13 of 16 on the road. They are finally going home for a stretch of games. This isn't the time to turn the ballclub into a tryout camp.

    Hopefully we've learned from guys like Bruce how tough it is to put up good major league numbers. Look at how Rosales has struggled. Teams need to wait until players are ready and there is a proper role for them.

    Stubbs should play this year at AAA. Bring him up in September. Hopefully he'll be ready then to make the team next year. Same with Bailey, perhaps August if a trade opens a rotation spot. But don't rush these guys out of frustration because of a tough stretch.

    I don't agree that Stubbs and Dickerson are the same player, Stubbs doesn't have the strikeout problem. And I think Hairston is pretty good defensively, but he belongs at second or even short, not at third. But these are quibbles, your basic point is important and I agree with it.

    And I also give kudos to Dusty for his mature attitude toward the ballclub. It is developing, it hit a rough patch, now hopefully some guys will return from injury soon and the team will improve.
    Except its pretty much already a tryout camp. With Hairston and Hernandez on the corners, Rosales spotting in, career fringe guys splitting LF and a 29 year old rookie handling most of the catching.

    FWIW, I'm not in favor of adding Stubbs, Heisey or Frazier to the 40 man roster at this point. But Drew Sutton is hitting and on the 40 man and Rosales has had his chance. A switch would seem in order about now with a hot hand getting a chance to spark the team at a trouble spot. It happens all the time in Baseball; not sure why its such a major hand wringing decision in Cincy. IMO Rosales has a future as a bench player and going back down to give a another guy who is hot a chance isn't exactly writing the guy off.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Would you rather have Dickerson or Stubbs in center vs RHP? IMO, they are essentially the same player (they just bat from different sides of the plate). Stubbs could definitely see some time in CF vs LHP, but maybe the Reds would rather him get everyday at-bats in AAA to continue his development. If that's the case I can't really fault them.

    I think Sutton would essentially play the same role as Hairston (OK bat and not so good defense at multiple positions).

    Frazier needs AAA time and a position.

    IMO the only guy in the minors who has definitely earned a call-up is Roenicke, but unfortuantely for him the bullpen has been a strength. So he gets to wait.

    Good post, and I agree. Rushing prospects is not the answer to help this '09 team IMO. Especially simply because they have a hot hand at AA or AAA. So did Rosales.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Wait a minute........isn't this the team Baker wanted? Last year wasn't his team, so it was their fault.......

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Wait a minute........isn't this the team Baker wanted? Last year wasn't his team, so it was their fault.......
    I'm missing your point

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm missing your point
    Baker through WK under the bus last year, saying that that team wasn't Baker's.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I'm missing your point
    Last year we didn't win, he made a point to say it wasn't his fault because it wasn't "his" team. This year, these are supposed to be his guys, and now they aren't winning for another reason (they are too young). I'm not saying it's his fault, but man.......you can't keep coming up with reasons why you aren't winning. I'd love to see an attitude of "Damn the torpedoes, no more excuses, let's expect to win".

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    Last year we didn't win, he made a point to say it wasn't his fault because it wasn't "his" team. This year, these are supposed to be his guys, and now they aren't winning for another reason (they are too young). I'm not saying it's his fault, but man.......you can't keep coming up with reasons why you aren't winning. I'd love to see an attitude of "Damn the torpedoes, no more excuses, let's expect to win".
    Sorry, I don't see that as making excuses. I call that an observation and a frustration. BTW, Cast tried that approach with y'all, and he gets just as much grief for "the losing stops now" comment, so I don't buy that attitude would be satisfactory here either. Just a guess.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    I kind of like Dusty these days. He's not going to reinvent the game, I know. He's not the worst manager ever, either. He's dealing with a banged up team that had a lot of holes to begin with. They're at .500, although I don't know how long that's going to last. Still, I kind of like the job he's been doing this year. Except for the rain delays.

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    Re: Baker on youth, patience and staying above .500

    It should be stated again...we should all be thanking our lucky stars that all the other teams in the Central have stunk as of late too. True, it would be a great time for the Reds to get to the top of the division...but at least they haven't really lost any ground despite all this losing.

    Let's pray Votto, EdE and Volquez get back ASAP.


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