Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 58

Thread: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    664

    The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Anyone notice this? Granted, the sample size isn't as big for everyone. I dunno of Janish is considered a rookie or not, so I use the term loosely, but look at this stuff, AVG and OBP:

    SS
    Janish SS .277 .346
    A Gonzalez SS .214 .256

    C
    R Hanigan C .316 .406
    R Hernandez .240 .319


    CF
    W Taveras CF .219 .270
    C Dickerson .246 .368


    I'm guessing when Votto gets back, Hanigan will be kicked to backup. What is going on here?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    Anyone notice this? Granted, the sample size isn't as big for everyone. I dunno of Janish is considered a rookie or not, so I use the term loosely, but look at this stuff, AVG and OBP:

    SS
    Janish SS .277 .346
    A Gonzalez SS .214 .256

    C
    R Hanigan C .316 .406
    R Hernandez .240 .319


    CF
    W Taveras CF .219 .270
    C Dickerson .246 .368


    I'm guessing when Votto gets back, Hanigan will be kicked to backup. What is going on here?
    So funny!My post in the Taveras thread pretty much says the same thing.

  4. #3
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Maybe so but Walt has put together a decent team imo. Until it comes out that he is forcing Dusty to put our 2 worse hitters excluding some of our pitchers in the 1 and 2 hole I have to blame Dusty.What could he possibly be hoping to accomplish?As bad as Taveras is he could be very useful coming off the bench to pinch run or lay down a bunt.Spot starts here and there would be the most I'd want to see him get.As far as Gonzo goes I'd be ok with him if we could prove that Janish is no better.He would have to actually play for that to happen though.I thought that Dusty prided himself on playing everyone to keep them sharp?If we had a premier SS I could understand Janish's disapearence but we don't.Actually Gonzo struggles pretty bad at the plate(in case Dusty didn't notice).

    As far as what Dusty should do.Just about anything would be better but Dickerson leading off with Hanigang batting second would be ideal imo.When Votto and EE gets back I would really consider Phillips leading off as long as he can keep his obp around .350 and have Dickerson follow.

    One more thing I'd like to complain about with Dusty even before he does it.When Votto is back Hanigan is sure to disappear again for weeks at a time.He should at least split time with Hernandez but I can't see Dusty ever letting that happen.

    I have been very patient with Dusty but as of today I'm not a big fan.I'm sure most of you would ask "what took so long".

    This post probably fits in better here anyways.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    395

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Sometimes it does seem like Dusty or someone is almost making a point of flying in the face of new generation SABRmeterics people. It's kind of like this "know nothing" jock attitude, like they know better than all the eggheads that keep saying you need high OBP people at the top of the order.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    301

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    Anyone notice this? Granted, the sample size isn't as big for everyone. I dunno of Janish is considered a rookie or not, so I use the term loosely, but look at this stuff, AVG and OBP:

    SS
    Janish SS .277 .346
    A Gonzalez SS .214 .256

    C
    R Hanigan C .316 .406
    R Hernandez .240 .319


    CF
    W Taveras CF .219 .270
    C Dickerson .246 .368


    I'm guessing when Votto gets back, Hanigan will be kicked to backup. What is going on here?
    What is going on here? You have to ask? Dusty freakin' Baker, that's what. I see that Hanigan is batting 8th tonight again. What a moron. Dumbest manager in the bigs...and that's saying a lot. He's a homer for the "established" guys, whether they suck or not.

    It's not rocket science...give your best hitters the most at bats each game...

    Dickerson
    Hanigan
    Nix/Gomes
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Hernandez
    Hairston/Rosales
    Janish

    Hell, I would even put Janish in the 2-hole rather than who Dusty puts there. If I see A-Gon in the 2nd spot one more time I'm puking blood for days. And let WT the designated pinch runner/bunter.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    One more thing I'd like to complain about with Dusty even before he does it.When Votto is back Hanigan is sure to disappear again for weeks at a time.He should at least split time with Hernandez but I can't see Dusty ever letting that happen.

    I think the schedule and Charlie Manual of the Phillies could have a say in that.

    Votto is not scheduled to return until the the Reds come back from their next road trip. That would be June 30th, two weeks before the All-Star Game. Hanigan has the second highest batting average among catchers behind McCann of Atlanta. His fielding is among the best in the league and he is the best in the NL at caught stealing. If Hanigan can keep up the pace and maybe even catch McCann will manuel put him on the team? it would be hard for Baker to bench an all-star.

  8. #7
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by flash View Post
    One more thing I'd like to complain about with Dusty even before he does it.When Votto is back Hanigan is sure to disappear again for weeks at a time.He should at least split time with Hernandez but I can't see Dusty ever letting that happen.

    I think the schedule and Charlie Manual of the Phillies could have a say in that.

    Votto is not scheduled to return until the the Reds come back from their next road trip. That would be June 30th, two weeks before the All-Star Game. Hanigan has the second highest batting average among catchers behind McCann of Atlanta. His fielding is among the best in the league and he is the best in the NL at caught stealing. If Hanigan can keep up the pace and maybe even catch McCann will manuel put him on the team? it would be hard for Baker to bench an all-star.
    I have to start a thread about this.I sure hope your right.Hanigan has proven a lot.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    584

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfever09 View Post

    As far as what Dusty should do.Just about anything would be better but Dickerson leading off with Hanigang batting second would be ideal imo.When Votto and EE gets back I would really consider Phillips leading off as long as he can keep his obp around .350 and have Dickerson follow.


    This post probably fits in better here anyways.
    Why on earth would you put the guy who leads your team in RBI and is second in Homeruns batting leadoff? And this thread is about Dusty and his ridiculous lineups. When Votto and Encarnacion get back Hanigan will go back to the bench and I don't have a problem with it at all. Hernandez has come up with so many big hits, his defense has been much better than advertised. I like Hanigan and he is a good player, but Hernandez is a proven veteran who has produced for this club. I am not crazy about Tavares, but Dusty allows guys to play themselves into the lineup (like Laynce Nix) and out of the lineup like Chris DIckerson. It may not mean anything to fans but it is important in the locker room that when guys get either the Hook or a chance they have no one to blame but themselves. I like that about Dusty, remember all the people who said that Phillips could not hit fourth and that jay bruce should hit fourth. I guess no one wants to give credit to Dusty for that one. Dusty is a winner and he has proven it on every team he has ever been on. He will prove it here too, but I know it will not matter to many on this board, but in the grand scheme of things who really cares what people on this board including myself think, the only stat that matters is wins and losses.

  10. #9
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by kfm View Post
    Why on earth would you put the guy who leads your team in RBI and is second in Homeruns batting leadoff? And this thread is about Dusty and his ridiculous lineups. When Votto and Encarnacion get back Hanigan will go back to the bench and I don't have a problem with it at all. Hernandez has come up with so many big hits, his defense has been much better than advertised. I like Hanigan and he is a good player, but Hernandez is a proven veteran who has produced for this club. I am not crazy about Tavares, but Dusty allows guys to play themselves into the lineup (like Laynce Nix) and out of the lineup like Chris DIckerson. It may not mean anything to fans but it is important in the locker room that when guys get either the Hook or a chance they have no one to blame but themselves. I like that about Dusty, remember all the people who said that Phillips could not hit fourth and that jay bruce should hit fourth. I guess no one wants to give credit to Dusty for that one. Dusty is a winner and he has proven it on every team he has ever been on. He will prove it here too, but I know it will not matter to many on this board, but in the grand scheme of things who really cares what people on this board including myself think, the only stat that matters is wins and losses.
    More then I hope I'm right about anything I think or write about the Reds I hope your right about Dusty even more.At this point though if your trying to give Baker credit for how the offense has preformed I'll have to agree 100%.I wouldn't use that as argument for how good of a coach he is though.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    584

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfever09 View Post
    More then I hope I'm right about anything I think or write about the Reds I hope your right about Dusty even more.At this point though if your trying to give Baker credit for how the offense has preformed I'll have to agree 100%.I wouldn't use that as argument for how good of a coach he is though.
    I hope I am right also. Nothing I said indicated that Dusty should be given the credit for how the offense has performed nor can any reasonable interpretation of what I said be read that way. I'm simply stating one example that people were all over Dusty for and now all is quiet on that front yet I don't hear the Dusty bashers saying how they were wrong about Phillips batting fourth. He has been forced to juggle guys and lineups like crazy because of all the injuries and slumps that almost every regular player except Votto has gone through. Yet here they sit within striking distance of 1st place. And once again, Dusty gets no credit. Trying to follow along the logic of the average Dusty basher, I would have to assume you believe they would have to be in first place if any other major league manager were managing the Reds. At some point the Dusty haters are going to have to start actually blaming players for their performance instead of the convenient excuse of Dusty. I would like you to explain how Dusty is responsible for the individual performance of each offensive player since you indicated he is responsible for the offensive performance. Keep in mind, if you are blaming him 100%, which I believe were you words, that includes the good and the bad.

  12. #11
    Member Captain Hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    columbus,ohio
    Posts
    2,223

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Certainly I don't blame Dusty 100%.I actually do not believe that the manager even makes that much of a difference.That doesn't mean they should get a free pass.I just think that when you bat Taveras and Gonzo 1 and 2 your doing something that no manager in baseball would do.I admit that if the Reds can get in the playoffs or even finish a few games over .500 I'll lay off Dusty.That's only natural.Dusty has been forced to be creative with all the injuries, certainly.I believe that he is far below average when it comes to doing that.His commitment to the vets might make for a happier club house but its imo its a problem and we all know how that turned out last year.Running Griffey out there in the 3 hole is almost as bad as Taveras and Gonzo 1 and 2.

    I really don't like bashing Dusty because I love the Reds and he is the coach.I don't really want to continue because I have stated how I feel.I respect your defense of Baker and his actions but I don't agree.Feel free to comment but I've said all I have to say.For now.

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    368

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    When Votto and Encarnacion get back Hanigan will go back to the bench and I don't have a problem with it at all. Hernandez has come up with so many big hits, his defense has been much better than advertised. I like Hanigan and he is a good player, but Hernandez is a proven veteran who has produced for this club.

    I like Hernandez and do agree he is a proven veteran, but I do have a problem with putting the top hitting catcher with the best arm in the National League on the bench. Hanigan is making a serious run for an All-Star berth and ROY honors. he is the only position player on the club worthy or even being considered for the All Star team whether he is on the ballot or not. I think Dusty could surprise some people when Votto comes back with keeping Hanigan behind the dish. I also believe Charlie manuel could surprise some when he places Ryan on the All-Star team.

    Dickerson, I believe will eventually win the job in center. Dusty is giving Taveras every chance, but he will eventually go with Dickerson because his defense is better and so will be his batting average. Dickerson started slow at Louisville last year before literally tearing up the IL.

    Ihope the Bailey/ Wood talk is real because the reds will need a SS next year. I would not resign Gonzalez. I know his defense is second to none, but his batting is suspect and he hasn't played a full year in the last four.

    Lastly i can even see a starting OF of Nix, Dick, and Gomes before the year is out if Bruce can't get his act together.

    I don't
    Last edited by flash; 06-22-2009 at 08:55 AM. Reason: spelling

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach
    Posts
    301

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by kfm View Post
    Why on earth would you put the guy who leads your team in RBI and is second in Homeruns batting leadoff? And this thread is about Dusty and his ridiculous lineups. When Votto and Encarnacion get back Hanigan will go back to the bench and I don't have a problem with it at all. Hernandez has come up with so many big hits, his defense has been much better than advertised. I like Hanigan and he is a good player, but Hernandez is a proven veteran who has produced for this club. I am not crazy about Tavares, but Dusty allows guys to play themselves into the lineup (like Laynce Nix) and out of the lineup like Chris DIckerson. It may not mean anything to fans but it is important in the locker room that when guys get either the Hook or a chance they have no one to blame but themselves. I like that about Dusty, remember all the people who said that Phillips could not hit fourth and that jay bruce should hit fourth. I guess no one wants to give credit to Dusty for that one. Dusty is a winner and he has proven it on every team he has ever been on. He will prove it here too, but I know it will not matter to many on this board, but in the grand scheme of things who really cares what people on this board including myself think, the only stat that matters is wins and losses.
    I don't even know what to say to this. I think I'll vomit instead. I guess Taveras has "played" himself in to the lineup? And Dickerson has "played himself out" of the lineup?" Whaaaaaaaa? :thumbdown

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,577

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
    Maybe so but Walt has put together a decent team imo. Until it comes out that he is forcing Dusty to put our 2 worse hitters excluding some of our pitchers in the 1 and 2 hole I have to blame Dusty.What could he possibly be hoping to accomplish?As bad as Taveras is he could be very useful coming off the bench to pinch run or lay down a bunt.Spot starts here and there would be the most I'd want to see him get.As far as Gonzo goes I'd be ok with him if we could prove that Janish is no better.He would have to actually play for that to happen though.I thought that Dusty prided himself on playing everyone to keep them sharp?If we had a premier SS I could understand Janish's disapearence but we don't.Actually Gonzo struggles pretty bad at the plate(in case Dusty didn't notice).

    As far as what Dusty should do.Just about anything would be better but Dickerson leading off with Hanigang batting second would be ideal imo.When Votto and EE gets back I would really consider Phillips leading off as long as he can keep his obp around .350 and have Dickerson follow.

    One more thing I'd like to complain about with Dusty even before he does it.When Votto is back Hanigan is sure to disappear again for weeks at a time.He should at least split time with Hernandez but I can't see Dusty ever letting that happen.

    I have been very patient with Dusty but as of today I'm not a big fan.I'm sure most of you would ask "what took so long".

    This post probably fits in better here anyways.
    I think The Crusty Baker has lost all of his remaining supporters after his anal-retentive stubbornness to continue playing these veterans who have proved they can't hit over these "rookies" who are proving they can hit.

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    All around
    Posts
    7,577

    Re: The rookies are doing better than their "veteran" counterparts

    Quote Originally Posted by kfm View Post
    Why on earth would you put the guy who leads your team in RBI and is second in Homeruns batting leadoff? And this thread is about Dusty and his ridiculous lineups. When Votto and Encarnacion get back Hanigan will go back to the bench and I don't have a problem with it at all. Hernandez has come up with so many big hits, his defense has been much better than advertised. I like Hanigan and he is a good player, but Hernandez is a proven veteran who has produced for this club. I am not crazy about Tavares, but Dusty allows guys to play themselves into the lineup (like Laynce Nix) and out of the lineup like Chris DIckerson. It may not mean anything to fans but it is important in the locker room that when guys get either the Hook or a chance they have no one to blame but themselves. I like that about Dusty, remember all the people who said that Phillips could not hit fourth and that jay bruce should hit fourth. I guess no one wants to give credit to Dusty for that one. Dusty is a winner and he has proven it on every team he has ever been on. He will prove it here too, but I know it will not matter to many on this board, but in the grand scheme of things who really cares what people on this board including myself think, the only stat that matters is wins and losses.
    Dusty's lineups and playing of Taveras is giving this team losses and proving that he's incapable of managing this ballclub for the second season in a row.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25