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Thread: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

  1. #1
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    If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Here --based on OPS only -- is how the position players currently rank (with Micah Owings thrown in for comparison) and the defensive positions of the "top" 8 or 9 -- 9, if there is a platoon position in the OF:

    1. Votto 1.091 1B

    2. Phillips 0.850 2B

    3. Gomes 0.832 OF

    4. Nix 0.824 OF

    5. Hanigan 0.783 C

    6. Bruce 0.768 OF

    7. Dickerson 0.726 OF

    8. Hairston 0.700 3B

    9. Janish 0.687 SS

    10. Hernandez 0.665 BENCH

    11. Rosales 0.618 BENCH

    12. Gonzalez 0.559 BENCH

    13. Taveras 0.545 BENCH

    14. Owings .0.881 PH

    When Joey returns, to get the top 8 OPS guys (of which there are at least 4 OFers) into the lineup, the platoon of Nix/Gomes (they do not have the best splits in the world) in LF might be needed. Who knows, Nix might hit southpaws better and Gomes righties if they got significantly more plate appearances.

    Without a LF platoon, the OF becomes Gomes, Bruce, and Nix, with Bruce in CF. That weakens the OF defense, but Janish as SS instead of Gonzalez might be a defensive wash.

    Taveras/Gonzalez become late inning defenders and they with Rosales and Hernandez occasional starters against southpaws -- unless and until any of them hit their way into the top 8 OPS list or any of the top 8 stop hitting.

    Drastic times call for drastic measures??

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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Why drastic? They're above .500. Expecting more from this club is wishing on a star.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Only 3 of the 4 outfielders can play at once but yeah, I'm all for seeing that lineup. This actually keeps the D pretty much the same while adding some offense.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    All you really need to do to get the best lineup in, is to get Votto back, and sub Dickerson in for Taveras. Nix/Gomes platoon, and Hernandez/Hannigan share catching.

    Not major surgery.

  6. #5
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    This really shouldn't be hard:

    CF: Dickerson/Taveras platoon (Hairston instead of Taveras if you prefer)
    LF: Nix/Gomes platoon
    RF: Bruce
    3B: EE (Hairston while EE is out)
    SS: Gonzalez/Janish (Janish 2-3 times a week to give Gonzalez's legs some rest and get him some PA)
    2B: Phillips
    1B: Bruce
    C: Hernandez/ Hanigan (Hanigan catches 2 pitchers, Hernandez 3)

    vR
    CF Dickerson
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    RF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    LF Nix
    C Hernandez/ Hanigan
    SS Gonzalez/ Janish
    P Pitcher

    vL
    CF Taveras (or Hairston if you prefer Taveras in Louisville)
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    RF Bruce
    LF Gomes
    C Hernandez/ Hanigan
    SS Gonzalez/ Janish
    P Pitcher

    When Owings pitches, bat him 8th. That took me 2 minutes. I guess Dusty doesn't have 2 minutes.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Only 3 of the 4 outfielders can play at once but yeah, I'm all for seeing that lineup. This actually keeps the D pretty much the same while adding some offense.
    Put the 4th OF @ 1B.

    Would give more offensive production than Razor Ramon, I'm guessing.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Put the 4th OF @ 1B.

    Would give more offensive production than Razor Ramon, I'm guessing.
    Didn't the Reds just go through an 8 year run of doing what you propose, focusing only on hitting as a the players make up?

    That went well did it not?

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    Socratic Gadfly TheNext44's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    This really shouldn't be hard:

    CF: Dickerson/Taveras platoon (Hairston instead of Taveras if you prefer)
    LF: Nix/Gomes platoon
    RF: Bruce
    3B: EE (Hairston while EE is out)
    SS: Gonzalez/Janish (Janish 2-3 times a week to give Gonzalez's legs some rest and get him some PA)
    2B: Phillips
    1B: Bruce
    C: Hernandez/ Hanigan (Hanigan catches 2 pitchers, Hernandez 3)

    vR
    CF Dickerson
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    RF Bruce
    2B Phillips
    LF Nix
    C Hernandez/ Hanigan
    SS Gonzalez/ Janish
    P Pitcher

    vL
    CF Taveras (or Hairston if you prefer Taveras in Louisville)
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    3B Encarnacion
    RF Bruce
    LF Gomes
    C Hernandez/ Hanigan
    SS Gonzalez/ Janish
    P Pitcher

    When Owings pitches, bat him 8th. That took me 2 minutes. I guess Dusty doesn't have 2 minutes.
    It's not that Dusty doesn't have 2 minutes to examine the lineup, it's that he refuses to take any time to study the progress that has been made in stats. Dusty clearly uses stats, but just the wrong ones, the ones that people used 20 years ago. He's a smart guy, but stubborn beyond belief.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Didn't the Reds just go through an 8 year run of doing what you propose, focusing only on hitting as a the players make up?

    That went well did it not?
    Offensively it worked.

    The pitching still sucked wind.

    Just seems like within the last 2 years, we've gone from trying to be an offensive 1st club with pitching as an afterthought, to a pitching and defense 1st club with offense as a distant afterthought.

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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    But the defense goes hand in hand with the pitching. And adding a poor defensive player (like you propose, in giving a fourth OF an unfamiliar spot at 1b) so that he may hit better is like robbing Peter to maybe pay Paul.

    No thank you to business as usual.

    This plan-- Jocketty's plan (as you surmised)--is good pitching, good defense, and catch-as-catch-can offense.

    So far this season, despite the injuries, it's worked pretty well.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 06-20-2009 at 09:54 AM.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Offensively it worked.

    The pitching still sucked wind.
    While our pitching staff is better this year, it's not better to the degree that many think.

    We are currently third in the major leagues this year with a .711 DER.

    Last year we were 29th at .673, in 2007 we were 25th at .678, and in 2006 we were 21st at .682.

    You knock between .038-.029 off the average pirchers BABIP and you will have exceptionally better pitching.

    Defense is not overated, especially with how it effects your pitching staff.

  13. #12
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    Offensively it worked.

    The pitching still sucked wind.

    Just seems like within the last 2 years, we've gone from trying to be an offensive 1st club with pitching as an afterthought, to a pitching and defense 1st club with offense as a distant afterthought.
    If it worked offensively, then why the run of losing seasons? All the Reds illustrated was that it is not possible to build an offense so strong that all you have to do is run a warm body out on the mound to win in MLB. Even the BRM did not start winning divisions/playoffs/World Series until they got some arms and shored up the D.

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    But the defense goes hand in hand with the pitching. And adding a poor defensive player (like you propose, in giving a fourth OF an unfamiliar spot at 1b) so that he may hit better is like robbing Peter to maybe pay Paul.

    No thank you to business as usual.
    Please, it's not "business as usual." "Business as usual" is running Willy T out there in the leadoff spot when Chris Dickerson is just as good in CF and leagues better with the bat.

    Is the net production from one of the OF'ers playing 1B > than Ramon? Then do it.

    Hopefully this won't be a problem due to Votto coming back.

    This plan-- Jocketty's plan (as you surmised)--is good pitching, good defense, and catch-as-catch-can offense.

    So far this season, despite the injuries, it's worked pretty well.
    I want it to work awesomely.

    Not "pretty well."
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    If it worked offensively, then why the run of losing seasons? All the Reds illustrated was that it is not possible to build an offense so strong that all you have to do is run a warm body out on the mound to win in MLB. Even the BRM did not start winning divisions/playoffs/World Series until they got some arms and shored up the D.
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    The pitching still sucked wind.

    Just seems like within the last 2 years, we've gone from trying to be an offensive 1st club with pitching as an afterthought, to a pitching and defense 1st club with offense as a distant afterthought.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  16. #15
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    Re: If Dusty Played The Best Hitters ...

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    ... Even the BRM did not start winning divisions/playoffs/World Series until they got some arms and shored up the D.
    The biggest change, however, was moving an outfielder, Rose, to 3B in order to get slugger and future MVP Foster into the starting OF.

    Today's Reds already have the arms. And Dickerson (at CF) and Janish are far better defenders than Rose (at 3B) and Foster.

    On Friday, the lineup of ...

    CF-Dickerson
    3B-Hairston
    2B-Phillips
    LF-Nix
    1B-Hernandez
    RF-Bruce
    C-Hanigan
    SS-Janish

    ... had the top 8 OPS guys (minus Votto, of course, and minus Gomes due to the Sox righty starter), got 11 hits, defended adequately, and (perhaps even more importantly) got the requisite bullpen pitching that was typically missing last year.


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