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Thread: Prospects for Arroyo...

  1. #31
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Without a doubt. Heck, I would rather acquire a guy similar to Zack Cozart than the two Philly prospects+1. I just don't see those guys ever being starters.
    Alright, I'll defer to your judgement. I was just thinking of filling multiple holes, but admittedly Donald's numbers at AAA this year are not encouraging...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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  3. #32
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    to say Michael Taylor is nearly untouchable is stupid... everyone who knows baseball has been reporting Taylor is their best trading chip and they are more than willing to deal him to get a good starting pitcher... i would do a arroyo for taylor swap right now

  4. #33
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by travisgrimes View Post
    to say Michael Taylor is nearly untouchable is stupid... everyone who knows baseball has been reporting Taylor is their best trading chip and they are more than willing to deal him to get a good starting pitcher... i would do a arroyo for taylor swap right now
    Taylor may be their "best" chip, but saying he is nearly untouchable is definitely not stupid. Is Yonder Alonso untouchable? No, but you are going to have to bring me more than a #3 starter for me to trade him. Same applies to the Phillies. Just because they have a surplus doesn't mean they are going to trade him for the first thing to come along. They are going to have to get desperate, and Walt is going to play some poker.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Taylor may be their "best" chip, but saying he is nearly untouchable is definitely not stupid. Is Yonder Alonso untouchable? No, but you are going to have to bring me more than a #3 starter for me to trade him. Same applies to the Phillies. Just because they have a surplus doesn't mean they are going to trade him for the first thing to come along. They are going to have to get desperate, and Walt is going to play some poker.
    That depends, does the #3 starter put you over the hump and into a world series, and a championship. This is the ultimate goal, so yes he would be given up for a ring.

  6. #35
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
    That depends, does the #3 starter put you over the hump and into a world series, and a championship. This is the ultimate goal, so yes he would be given up for a ring.
    Maybe, just don't act like they would automatically give him up. We aren't talking about a blocked prospect, who is out of options at AAA.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  7. #36
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    I think that definitely the teams that have been mentioned are the correct ones to target and who would probably have some level of interest. My gut says that although Philly could use him and would make some kind of offer for him his most likely future address if it comes to that might be out West. I think Joe Torre could see the value in him, since he has seen plenty of him and knows he is capable of pitching out of the rotation or pen. I don't know he would necc. use him as a starter in the playoffs and most likely that's all they are probably looking for. I think the Dodgers have had their fill of Penny so I doubt he's in their crosshairs. Plus who would you rather have Arroyo, Weaver or Milton? Having said that LA is tough to deal with these days and no one is really looking forward to adding significant payroll. I'd say odds are he won't go anywhere and unless we have no chance or it will be detrimental to keeping our core together I'd rather him stay.

    All that aside the Dodgers are deep with prospects and the main target(s) for me are still SS Ivan DeJesus Jr., RHP James McDonald, LHP Scott Elbert and a new one 3B Josh Bell. Secondary guys being Blake Dewitt, Andrew Lambo, Francisco Felix. And 1 guy who would/should be considered a throw in who I'd take a chance on is catcher Kenley Jansen. His defense looks solid but he is a 21 yr old at AAA and he has never hit real well but he seems to have some patience and maybe a bit of pop. Seems to have some trouble making contact but looking thru the #'s a bit he seems like he might be worth a flyer to see if there is something than can be done with his swing. For example taking away his switch hitting as he can't hit LHP to save his life, but he may be able to eventually hit RHP as he has done some decent things against them.

    I'd look for a Elbert/McDonald, DeJesus/Bell and Jansen deal. Obviously i'd prefer Elbert, DeJesus and Jansen for Arroyo and perhaps a bullpen arm like Rhodes. Hey if you are gonna do it, do it right. Deal him off and bring up Viola.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I think that definitely the teams that have been mentioned are the correct ones to target and who would probably have some level of interest. My gut says that although Philly could use him and would make some kind of offer for him his most likely future address if it comes to that might be out West. I think Joe Torre could see the value in him, since he has seen plenty of him and knows he is capable of pitching out of the rotation or pen. I don't know he would necc. use him as a starter in the playoffs and most likely that's all they are probably looking for. I think the Dodgers have had their fill of Penny so I doubt he's in their crosshairs. Plus who would you rather have Arroyo, Weaver or Milton? Having said that LA is tough to deal with these days and no one is really looking forward to adding significant payroll. I'd say odds are he won't go anywhere and unless we have no chance or it will be detrimental to keeping our core together I'd rather him stay.

    All that aside the Dodgers are deep with prospects and the main target(s) for me are still SS Ivan DeJesus Jr., RHP James McDonald, LHP Scott Elbert and a new one 3B Josh Bell. Secondary guys being Blake Dewitt, Andrew Lambo, Francisco Felix. And 1 guy who would/should be considered a throw in who I'd take a chance on is catcher Kenley Jansen. His defense looks solid but he is a 21 yr old at AAA and he has never hit real well but he seems to have some patience and maybe a bit of pop. Seems to have some trouble making contact but looking thru the #'s a bit he seems like he might be worth a flyer to see if there is something than can be done with his swing. For example taking away his switch hitting as he can't hit LHP to save his life, but he may be able to eventually hit RHP as he has done some decent things against them.

    I'd look for a Elbert/McDonald, DeJesus/Bell and Jansen deal. Obviously i'd prefer Elbert, DeJesus and Jansen for Arroyo and perhaps a bullpen arm like Rhodes. Hey if you are gonna do it, do it right. Deal him off and bring up Viola.
    I would gladly take SS Ivan DeJesus Jr. and catcher Kenley Jansen for Arroyo. Anything on top of that and it's gravy.

    Dejesus would project as our starter at SS next year, and would fit in nicely. His average is good, from what I have found he is also an excellent defensive player.

    Year Team Lg Age Org. Level Pos Ln G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP AVG OBP SLG OPS

    2008 JCK Sou 21 La AA ss-2b 128 463 91 150 21 2 7 58 16 2 76 81 5 3 9 7 17 .324 .419 .423 84
    Last edited by bellhead; 06-24-2009 at 09:56 AM. Reason: Updating

  9. #38
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Mario Rijo, you have been beating the Ivan DeJesus Jr drum for a while now. Do you really think he is a better prospect than a guy like Zack Cozart? If so, what makes you feel that way? Personally, I just don't see it but am curious to see your answer.

  10. #39
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Mario Rijo, you have been beating the Ivan DeJesus Jr drum for a while now. Do you really think he is a better prospect than a guy like Zack Cozart? If so, what makes you feel that way? Personally, I just don't see it but am curious to see your answer.
    Granted you probably have more info on him that I am not privy too and perhaps you'd be willing to share your reasons for not being high on him if so. I recall we had this discussion one other time and I think you may have said why you weren't but I don't recall what it was, but what you said didn't change my thinking on him.

    But basically from all I have gathered (i.e. read about him) his defense probably isn't quite on par with Cozart, but plenty adequate enough in every way. However he still needs some polish in that regard. The biggest reason I like him is his offensive game to this point and how it projects. 1st let me say that I have a theory that I think for the most part holds pretty true for most players. In short they gain more pop in stages and I have noticed that most players tend to gain that extra pop/strength at ages 21, 24 and 27-28. So I tend to look for guys who show good to advanced contact and discipline skills and what they are slugging and project it forward. Certainly it's not failproof but usually the guys who do this and who are young for their level tend to be good bats going forward. I don't have scouting reports on everyone and that makes it tougher but I feel pretty confident that DeJesus bat will play at the major league level as an average starting SS based on what he is doing right now and he has plenty of room to improve yet. Also from what I have read his defense is capable of being starter level as well.

    Basically find me a guy who makes good contact, has good discipline, solid range, good arm strength and solid hands who has played SS and has the requisite bat speed necc. to play in the major leagues and I'll give you a starting major league SS. The only thing I don't know for sure is how good his bat speed is but so far I have seen no reason to question it. The other areas I am confident he will be average or better at.

    In a nutshell I think he is as good a SS prospect as anyone would deal off to us, and I think he's probably farely equal to Cozart from an overall perspective. Whether he's better or worse than Cozart is debatable I think he will end up being better, however there's no reason not to have more than one guy with a shot at filling that role. What don't you think DeJesus is as good or better a prospect than Cozart? And why is Cozarts presence reason not to pursue another option?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    With the M's only 2.5 games out and Balentien struggling and out of options, I wonder what it would take to acquire him and Jeff Clement, who's currently back in AAA? Phillipe Aumont has been converted into a closer, so they are short on young pitching.

    Maybe if Bailey bombs in his latest major league go-round, these guys could be considered in a faded-star swap much like Brandon Wood? Of course, I'm sure jojo will have something to say about this...
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #41
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Mario Rijo,
    I guess the biggest knock with DeJesus is that he has no power and scouts don't really see it showing up to being even average. That also suggests the walks are going to dry up some too leaving him as mostly a average based hitter with solid defense. Not anything wrong with that type of guy, but I don't see it as an upgrade to a guy like Cozart at all.

  13. #42
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Arroyo for Wood seems like a very logical move for both organizations. However, I don't see the Reds trading Arroyo unless they fall out of the race or Volquez's shoulder miraculous heals 100% in the next 2-3 weeks.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #43
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Arroyo for Wood seems like a very logical move for both organizations. However, I don't see the Reds trading Arroyo unless they fall out of the race or Volquez's shoulder miraculous heals 100% in the next 2-3 weeks.
    That's the type of short-sighted BS that has plagued the organization for too long. As long as there are no long-term implications for his health (which has been the indication), whether or not Volquez is ready to go July 15 or September 15 shouldn't factor into the decision to trade Arroyo for Brandon Wood.

    If the Reds believe that Brandon Wood is the long-term solution at SS or 3B, they should pull the trigger on that deal. If they don't because Volquez won't be back for another month, it's just more of the same BS- struggling to tread water around the .500 mark.
    Go BLUE!!!

  15. #44
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    it's just more of the same BS- struggling to tread water around the .500 mark.
    Thats what the fans want. They don't care about next year or the year after. They want to win today. So does Bob.

  16. #45
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    Re: Prospects for Arroyo...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Thats what the fans want. They don't care about next year or the year after. They want to win today. So does Bob.
    Yep, and that's why the Reds have fared how they have in the last decade:

    As Billy Beane said (and I'm paraphrasing), "You're either contending or you're rebuilding. There is no in-between." The Marlins and the Rays understand that. The Reds don't.
    Go BLUE!!!


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