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Thread: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

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    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    A quote from a Taveras article on MLB.com:

    "It's really noticeable in two areas when guys don't hit," Baker said. "No. 1 is your leadoff man. If they're not getting walks as non at-bats, the at-bats mount up quicker than anybody else on the team.

    He does get the idea that your leadoff man bats more often than anyone else, now if someone can convince him to put someone there that CAN hit or get on base...........

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    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    A quote from a Taveras article on MLB.com:

    "It's really noticeable in two areas when guys don't hit," Baker said. "No. 1 is your leadoff man. If they're not getting walks as non at-bats, the at-bats mount up quicker than anybody else on the team.

    He does get the idea that your leadoff man bats more often than anyone else, now if someone can convince him to put someone there that CAN hit or get on base...........
    Well, I don't ever believe the things Dusty says, so I seriously doubt he has come to any understanding about lineup construction.

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    I about choked reading that.. he says it then lets Taveras the out making machine bat leadoff again tonight.. GRRRRR

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    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    I about choked reading that.. he says it then lets Taveras the out making machine bat leadoff again tonight.. GRRRRR
    I don't get it............I just don't. It's like beating your head against a wall night, after night, after night............... I remember reading a website that had a "calender" or a "timeline" of predicted decisions Baker would make his first year here (I think it was from a Cubs blogger or fan) and thinking, no one is that crazy. But I guess in hindsight............

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Honestly, they get less than five hits a game with or without WT in the lineup. There is plenty of ineptitude to go around.

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Honestly, they get less than five hits a game with or without WT in the lineup. There is plenty of ineptitude to go around.
    Yes there is and it's very sad.

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    I about choked reading that.. he says it then lets Taveras the out making machine bat leadoff again tonight.. GRRRRR
    LHP on the mound and it appears Dusty is moving towards a platoon. No surprise to see Willy in the lineup. Dickerson is still playing tonight though, he's just moved to LF.

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    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    A quote from a Taveras article on MLB.com:

    "It's really noticeable in two areas when guys don't hit," Baker said. "No. 1 is your leadoff man. If they're not getting walks as non at-bats, the at-bats mount up quicker than anybody else on the team.
    Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out when, in June, the guy is hitting .074 BA .074 OB% .074SLG% .148 OPS

    Just takes Baker looonger.
    Last edited by GAC; 06-25-2009 at 05:48 PM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    I think Dusty's problem is less about understanding how things work than his stubborn unwillingness to deal with the reality of the skills of his players. He plays guys based on his idea of what they could potentially be, the generic roles in which he's slotted them, rather than the specifics of the level of performance they bring to bear.

    Willy Taveras might be going good sometimes and struggling in others, but he's a "lead off guy". Ryan Hannigan might have a .400 OBP right now, but he's a slow catcher. You get the idea...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    What happened to Laynce Nix?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Dusty's problem is less about understanding how things work than his stubborn unwillingness to deal with the reality of the skills of his players. He plays guys based on his idea of what they could potentially be, the generic roles in which he's slotted them, rather than the specifics of the level of performance they bring to bear.

    Willy Taveras might be going good sometimes and struggling in others, but he's a "lead off guy". Ryan Hannigan might have a .400 OBP right now, but he's a slow catcher. You get the idea...
    Exactly. I picture Baker looking at a guy with top notch speed, closing his eyes and picturing him as Ralph Garr.

    Open your eyes Dusty. He hits more like Terri Garr.

    I also think Body type has something to do with it. Dickerson runs pretty fast too and was always known as a superior athlete, but at 6-4, 215 or so, he doesn't have that 5-11, 195 pound body that he seems to be looking for.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Exactly. I picture Baker looking at a guy with top notch speed, closing his eyes and picturing him as Ralph Garr.

    Open your eyes Dusty. He hits more like Terri Garr.

    You're probably not too far off the mark. Dusty came up with the Braves and that's how it was done then. Had to be a pretty big influence on him.
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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    In a Tony Larussa lineup, Willy is a classic #9 hitter: Lots of speed, so if he gets on you want the meat of your order coming up next, but no OBP skills so you want him to have fewer plate appearances, thus #9. Bat the pitcher 8th...unless it's Owings who I'd bat 6th.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think Dusty's problem is less about understanding how things work than his stubborn unwillingness to deal with the reality of the skills of his players. He plays guys based on his idea of what they could potentially be, the generic roles in which he's slotted them, rather than the specifics of the level of performance they bring to bear.

    Willy Taveras might be going good sometimes and struggling in others, but he's a "lead off guy". Ryan Hannigan might have a .400 OBP right now, but he's a slow catcher. You get the idea...
    I think you pretty much nailed it. I really don't understand this guy's hangup with speed, in players, that seem to be devoid of other offensive abilities that matter. But you're right - he seems to be casting (playing) players based on an idea, rather then reality.

    He's trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Well, maybe Baker DOES know lineup construction...........

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I think you pretty much nailed it. I really don't understand this guy's hangup with speed, in players, that seem to be devoid of other offensive abilities that matter. But you're right - he seems to be casting (playing) players based on an idea, rather then reality.

    He's trying to put a square peg in a round hole.
    Look at every lineup with Taveras at Houston and at Colorado. I haven't, but I'm guessing he's hit leadoff or second the vast majority of the time. I guess all those managers were playing him based on an idea and not reality.

    We saw last night how effective Taveras can be. He's had a terrible year and he can't hit very well, but if he puts the ball on the ground and goes to right field, he can occasionally get on base and then run the bases well.

    Taveras was non-tendered last season. The Reds went for him instead of a more expensive free agent. They didn't trust Dickerson to be the lead guy in centerfield. So we have Taveras.

    They are trying to make it work. They are platooning him more, even pinch hit Dickerson for him against a righty. Willy's been starting lately against lefties and has had two good games in the last several, which is some improvement.

    It's not Dusty. It's Willy, and hopefully he will improve because his numbers this year don't cut it.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-26-2009 at 09:27 AM.


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