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Thread: Reds looking for right handed bat

  1. #151
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    I don't get why he has to be right handed at this point.

    We have Votto as our best hitter, and then Phillips is our 2nd best hitter. It's not exactly the Griffey/Dunn days anymore.
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  3. #152
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'd say it's no more or less honest than those claiming I'm clamoring for 5 Cy Youngs in the rotation. I'd say a rotation @ 4.48 in the weakest offensive division in baseball is pretty much Vanilla Central.
    Interesting how you are now, apparently, trying to tweak your argument. All along it's been that the Reds staff, especially the starters, are pure unadulterated crap. Now....now, it's that they are just vanilla.

    Meanwhile the Reds are at the bottom of nearly any offensive category you can imagine. So yea, the Reds would have to have a starting rotation of 5 total studs if they are going to refuse to score runs but still try to win baseball games. Whether you type the words or not, that is the nexus of your argument.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 07-02-2009 at 06:40 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

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  4. #153
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I don't get why he has to be right handed at this point.

    We have Votto as our best hitter, and then Phillips is our 2nd best hitter. It's not exactly the Griffey/Dunn days anymore.
    2 words Jay Bruce

  5. #154
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by backbencher View Post
    Revisionism. Cordero's contract was a pure market-value contract for 2008 -- remember, the Brewere were furious that Cordero jilted them for something like $500,00 over four years.
    That's like being fine with buying a house in Florida at the height of the market in 2005 for $500k and trying to justify the purchase now when it is worth $250k.

    Look at what KRod signed for last offseason. The signing was ill advised.

  6. #155
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's like being fine with buying a house in Florida at the height of the market in 2005 for $500k and trying to justify the purchase now when it is worth $250k.

    Look at what KRod signed for last offseason. The signing was ill advised.
    Your analogy depends, naturally, on whether you bought your house in Florida as an investment property (an ill-advised move at the height of the market) or because you needed a place to live.

    In the case of Cordero, the Reds needed a place to live and paid market price to get such a place.

    Reasonable minds can disagree about whether or not they should've bought or rented -- but it's worth noting that of the people most touted as being able to handle closing duties on this club over the last few years, one is currently in AAA (Burton), one is currently in Milwaukee (Coffey), and another people keep wanting to ride out on rails every season (Weathers).
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  7. #156
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Your analogy depends, naturally, on whether you bought your house in Florida as an investment property (an ill-advised move at the height of the market) or because you needed a place to live.

    In the case of Cordero, the Reds needed a place to live and paid market price to get such a place.
    While true, the Reds should have been really just shopping for a roof over their heads and not the most expensive house in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Reasonable minds can disagree about whether or not they should've bought or rented -- but it's worth noting that of the people most touted as being able to handle closing duties on this club over the last few years, one is currently in AAA (Burton), one is currently in Milwaukee (Coffey), and another people keep wanting to ride out on rails every season (Weathers).
    I agree with that sentiment, but it still doesn't justify the fact that they paid that abnormal sum for a closer while the rest of the team was flawed.

    But this is way off topic...bottom line is the club needs help in many areas. They really need to clean out some of the glut and focus on the future. If you aren't a part of the future, then move along.

  8. #157
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Your analogy depends, naturally, on whether you bought your house in Florida as an investment property (an ill-advised move at the height of the market) or because you needed a place to live.

    In the case of Cordero, the Reds needed a place to live and paid market price to get such a place.

    Reasonable minds can disagree about whether or not they should've bought or rented -- but it's worth noting that of the people most touted as being able to handle closing duties on this club over the last few years, one is currently in AAA (Burton), one is currently in Milwaukee (Coffey), and another people keep wanting to ride out on rails every season (Weathers).
    To me the argument about Cordero is that the Reds should've bought in a different neighborhood because they didn't have to pay what they did for a good place to live.
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  9. #158
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Both his WHIP and SLG can be explained by the increased hit rate represented by his inflated BABIP relative to his types. The SLG of a single is 1.000. Extra duck snorts will show up in both places. And I fail to see how 2007 was substantively better than 2005-06. Heck 2006 and 2007 were virtually identical save for his hit rate, which is in large part of a function of his defense and luck. And other than his hit rate this year, I fail to see how he's substantively worse. He's not allowing more runs and while his hits are up, that's not due to a regression in the quality of his stuff, worse command, etc.

    Unless you have some way to show that the distriubtion of the quality of his starts has changed (despite no change in his aggregate performance), I simply don't see the evidence you're prodiving to support the claim that he's worse than during 2005-07. The only difference is an inflated hit rate that is out line with his underlying peripherals and due for a regression even if he were to pitch exactly the same way as he has to date.
    I'll let my record stand as is. If other teams share your view, that would certainly help the return if we cashed him in before he falls off the cliff. But that is not the Reds mojo. He will most likely rot on the vine.

  10. #159
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Interesting how you are now, apparently, trying to tweak your argument. All along it's been that the Reds staff, especially the starters, are pure unadulterated crap. Now....now, it's that they are just vanilla.

    Meanwhile the Reds are at the bottom of nearly any offensive category you can imagine. So yea, the Reds would have to have a starting rotation of 5 total studs if they are going to refuse to score runs but still try to win baseball games. Whether you type the words or not, that is the nexus of your argument.
    This has *never* been my argument. I've argued that Cueto has been excellent. Volquez has a great ceiling, but of course he's hurt. The other three are either middling (Harang/Owings) or awful (Arroyo). The depth is ridiculously bad (Maloney/Bailey).

    I've also acknowledged that the offense is not particularly good (though I do think it will level out by year's end to NL-average), and that most of the improvement probably needs to be made there. I just think, all things being equal, that the prognosis for both this year and the future is much brighter on the offensive side of things (especially when you consider the number of nice offensive prospects and the organization's ability to produce offensive players).

    So, sure, they could go hog-wild and spend a bunch of payroll on acquiring rental hitters that are almost certainly not going to be enough by themselves to win the Reds this division (you can't honestly believe that the Reds have the payroll ceiling to match the Brewers in the realm of offense this season). In order to win the division outright, they're going to need probably two bat upgrades and definitely one rotation upgrade.

    I'm fine with the notion of selling off more expensive parts for young bats, but I really don't support the strategy that says push the team over the payroll threshold to chase a fantasy, then get stuck with the high-cost offensive acquisition next year.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 07-02-2009 at 09:56 AM.

  11. #160
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Good discussion, but we're off topic.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  12. #161
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by paintmered View Post
    Good discussion, but we're off topic.
    Really? The last two or three posts have been about what the Reds should or shouldn't do vis. deadline acquisitions. It strayed, but has returned.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 07-02-2009 at 10:08 AM.

  13. #162
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    So, sure, they could go hog-wild and spend a bunch of payroll on acquiring rental hitters that are almost certainly not going to be enough by themselves to win the Reds this division (you can't honestly believe that the Reds have the payroll ceiling to match the Brewers in the realm of offense this season). In order to win the division outright, they're going to need probably two bat upgrades and definitely one rotation upgrade.

    I'm fine with the notion of selling off more expensive parts for young bats, but I really don't support the strategy that says push the team over the payroll threshold to chase a fantasy, then get stuck with the high-cost offensive acquisition next year.
    Yes, pitching reserves in AAA are thin. What organization has several studs laying around waiting for a chance to pitch?

    I'm not suggesting they should go "all in" and get a big bat because they are just that close from competition. I've thought and stated that 2009 is a Fail from day one (note the line under my screen name). So going hog wild on one bat isn't at all what I think they should do.

    To tie this back to the topic at hand:

    I think they should be focusing on SS, CF, LF and 3B in that order. Some areas can be addressed in-house and quickly, some are going to require creative trades.

    If, in conversations regarding these other positions, a starting pitcher or nearly ready pitcher is available they should consider picking him up. If trading Harang nets you several legit prospects then do it.

    Bats don't need to be right handed. They need to get on base frequently and avoid lots of outs. He can hit with his feet for all I care.

    I think maybe ultimately we're saying the same thing: that is this team is not ready to compete for real an several areas need to be addressed. I think we differ on where you start. I say you focus on offense and if you get a pitcher along the way great. Nor do I agree that the starting rotation is as dismal as you constantly proclaim.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  14. #163
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post



    I agree with that sentiment, but it still doesn't justify the fact that they paid that abnormal sum for a closer while the rest of the team was flawed.

    .

    I strongly disagree with this, the Cordero acquisition was an absolute key to making this team better, the bullpen currently has the best ERA in the NL and is the number one strength of this team. Cordero as closer is key to that.

    As the deadline approaches, I am absolutely unmoved by the cries of poverty on the Reds. Their position players are virtually all on cheap deals. They absolutely can and should be looking for a major player - they are in the hunt and there's no guarantee they will be next year again.

    And anyone who thinks the Reds will be vying for a Central title next year should remember that there are other teams out there who could up the ante considerably by spending big next off-season and put the Reds farther behind in talent.

    They passed on Dye, they probably are passing on Holliday. Someone I know still bemoans them passing on Rolen years ago. This team never goes for it.

    The Reds need to spend for the offensive version of Cordero. They are not winning the NL Central with a team OPS of .711.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-02-2009 at 11:25 AM.

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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I strongly disagree with this, the Cordero acquisition was an absolute key to making this team better, the bullpen currently has the best ERA in the NL and is number one strength of this team. Cordero as closer is key to that.

    As the deadline approaches, I am absolutely unmoved by the cried of poverty on the Reds. Their position players are virtually all on cheap deals. They absolutely can and should be looking for a major player - they are in the hunt and there's no guarantee they will be next year again.

    And anyone who thinks the Reds will be vying for a Central title next year should remember that there are other teams out there who could up the ante considerably by spending big next off-season and put the Reds farther behind in talent.

    They passed on Dye, they probably are passing on Holliday. Someone I know still bemoans them passing on Rolen years ago. This team never goes for it.

    The Reds need to spend for the offensive version of Cordero. They are not winning the NL Central with a team OPS of .711.
    I don't believe it either; but wish in one hand....

  16. #165
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds looking for right handed bat

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Reds need to spend for the offensive version of Cordero. They are not winning the NL Central with a team OPS of .711.
    Do you think they need one Cordero on the offensive side or 2? Or 3? To get a quality offense in place, this team neds 2 or 3 upgrades on offense. No use getting one, spending the $$$ and prospects needed in order to get that guy just to bring the team OPS up to .740.

    Dye or Holliday by himself likely won't be enough.


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