Without one serious starter upgrade it certainly won't be enough. With one other big-time offensive acquisition in addition to a Dye or Holliday, it probably brings them pretty close. But this team doesn't have $15 million they'd need to add both.Originally Posted by edabbs44
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
Juan Rivera sure is looking like a steal for the Angels right now. He currently has an .859 OPS, is on pace for 32 homers, and is playing great defense (+8.7UZR). He would've been a better option than Dye or Holliday becauses he's cheaper and wouldn't have cost the Reds any prospects.
But a Hanley Ramirez (for example) plus EdE, Votto, a platoon of Nix/Gomes, and a platoon of Hairston/Dickerson might.
Of course, Hanley the Manley is not going to be dealt, so that becomes an entirely theorhetical excercise.
He would have been a nice addition if he was willing to move from the Left Coast.
But he was blasted by a few on here.
Last edited by edabbs44; 07-02-2009 at 11:44 AM.
Exactly. Getting someone like Dye or Holliday might appease the masses in the short-term, but at the end of the day when they fall short in October the franchise will be feeling the hangover.
SS - A definite need. The question is whether there is anyone available and at what cost. We have gone over this position before but the big question I have is whether or not a SS is available that is a big enough upgrade over what we have now and at what cost. It is also to be seen how the organization views Cozart. He has been on the fast track since his drafting.
CF - Need but to be filled shortly. Dickerson can play there now. Stubbs appears to be the heir apparent, and Heisey is the backup plan. Don't see Jocketty making a move for a CF with the system stocked.
LF - $ vs value of upgrade. Gomes and Nix have done a pretty good job so far. I don't know how well they will continue play so it more of a guess what really happens.
3B - What will Edwin do? That is the million dollar question. I don't think a move would be made until right before the trade deadline in order to give Edwin time.
Add EE and a significant bat to Votto, Phillips, Dickerson, hopefully Bruce, with Nix/Gomes around, maybe something from Hernandez and Hanigan, continued good pitching -- against this division -- yeah, they can win.
Last edited by Kc61; 07-02-2009 at 11:49 AM.
Heavens forbid the Reds make a move that actually puts them over the top.
This team currently needs multiple moves to get there. If they are able to do that then they should. But I don't want to see them deal valuable young players in order to finish in 3rd place.
I think his point is that one move won't be enough (it won't be), and two moves are almost certainly unaffordable.
Right now, the Brewers are on pace to outscore this offense by about 90-100 runs. The Reds are going to save maybe 30-40 more runs with their pitching versus the Brewers. That's some math that won't work.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
So the return of EdE and another bat should get this team to the promised land? I find that hard to believe, but if that is the case then they should go for it.
Funny how all the perennial winners in baseball take the opposite approach. They look at where they are at mid-season and see if they can win. And if they can, they go for it.
"Appease the masses" is a cute phrase, but I would contrast the "masses" with those who are simply afraid to win. They are so stuck on protecting the future that they never are bold enough to succeed in the present. And they never recognize the opportunity to win in the present.
This team is 3 games out in July. If, as the month continues, they are in the same range and they sit back because of the future, or because they probably won't win anyway, or because they may not have enough of this or that, or because they should wait until they have a better shortstop, or whatever, then we know what they are -- and the word ain't "winners."
Just my opinion, but if the Reds add Holliday it puts them right at the top of the NL Central. I also think with Votto back, an improvement of Bruce, and Holliday's bat the Reds will make up quite a bit of that offensive discrepancy.
I can't guarantee or even predict the World Series. But EE and another bat certainly give the Reds a good chance of making the playoffs. That would be nice.
Everyone said that Milwaukee was stupid for getting Sabathia as a rental last year and giving up all that good talent. Everyone predicted their demise this year. There's no demise. They are doing well. Teams recover from these deals. And they made the playoffs last season.
Prospects are fine, but in pro sports if a team is constantly banking on tomorrow, it is nowhere.
When you say "fall short in October", do you mean contend up to the last few days of the season, but not make the playoffs, or make the playoffs but not go far in them?
If it's the latter, if I knew that a trade would guarantee that the Reds would make the playoffs, and did not include Votto, Cueto, Volquez, Phillips or Bruce, (or did not an equivalent player back in both age and talent) I would do it in heartbeat. That means any prospect, including Alonso.
The value that going to the playoffs has on an organization is immeasurable. It generates income, in ticket sales for the games themselves, to increased Media money, to increased sales the next year, to increase merchandise sales. We are talking about adding $10-20M in payroll because of making the playoffs.
More importantly, in breads a mentality of winning. You attract better free agents, players feel like they are playing for something, the fans become more passionate, because they can see goal in hand.
The Brewers gave up the farm for a few months of CC, and he lead them into the playoffs. They got knocked out in the first round. Do you think that they regret that decision? Hell no.
I just with the Reds could be a bold.
And even if you meant the former, with the Reds contending to the last days of the season, that helps too, but just to a lesser extent. After 10 years of finishing below .500, that would not lead to a hangover. The Reds giving up and finishing 79-83 would give the biggest hangover.
The fans would see that the Reds gave it their all, and even with everyone counting them out before the season started, they made a valiant run for the gold. I have a feeling they would be excited for next year when they would have an even better chance.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
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