Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    MIDSEASON MINOR LEAGUE ALL-STAR TEAM

    Chris Heisey

    While injuries ravaged Double-A Carolina, Heisey kept showing all five tools and earned a promotion to Triple-A. Not bad for a 17th-round pick.

    MIDSEASON MINOR LEAGUE ALL-SURPRISE TEAM

    Chris Heisey

    The only player to appear on both these lists, Heisey's all-around abilities have propelled him to the cusp of the big leagues.

    Zach Stewart

    Stewart has rocketed from high Class A to Triple-A all in on half of a season. After working out of the bullpen last year in his pro debut, Stewart has gone back to starting and succeeded thanks to a hard, sinking fastball that induces groundballs by the bushel.

    Travis Wood

    The third Red on the All-Surprise team, Wood has been the ace of Double-A Carolina's pitching staff, leading the Mudcats in both innings and strikeouts.

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...09/268482.html
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,466

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    What would I do without BA? I get giddy every time it shows up in my mailbox and spend a ridiculous amount of time on the website.

    The most recent issue gives Heisey a lot of love. It's very exciting to watch him developing into something most people never thought he would.

  4. #3
    Bleeding Red in the South
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    166

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Do you guys think all 3 of them (Heisey, Stewart, Wood) all crack the top 100 lists next offseason?

  5. #4
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,283

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by SoTxRedsFan View Post
    Do you guys think all 3 of them (Heisey, Stewart, Wood) all crack the top 100 lists next offseason?
    In my mind, only Stewart has a chance.

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    1,870

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    In my mind, only Stewart has a chance.
    If Heisey keeps his current pace it will be hard to keep him off that list.

  7. #6
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,283

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003 View Post
    If Heisey keeps his current pace it will be hard to keep him off that list.
    Not really. He is 24, will have just half a season in AA and doesn't have any plus tools. Guys like that don't make Top 100 lists all that often.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    And this would be the reason I suppose I have a really hard time respecting BA or any other talent evaluator. Heisey has done nothing but produce. As for no plus tools:

    Arm Strength
    Defensively, he's had 18 and 20 assists in the two years he's played full seasons.

    Speed
    Heisey has 79 stolen bases against only 14 caught stealing. That's in roughly 400 minor league games. This year he's improved enough that he's looking at around 30 SBs for a minor league season. That should equal out to 35-40 at the major league level.

    Power
    Lifetime 460+ slugging, with a 568 number this year. And that's just filling out, as he's shown doubles power throughout his career so far.

    Batting Eye/ Average
    Lifetime BA over 300 with a 70 percentage point jump on top of that in OBP. Too, he's really hard to K, an indicator he has bat on ball skills in the upper percentile of minor league hitters. In fact, he K's about as often as he BB's. In today's game, that's phenomenal.

    The other tool-- the glove-- has been positive his entire career. While he's not Stubbs in CF, he's in that group just below. And that ain't bad, folks.

    And it's not like he's old. He has a pretty decent shot of playing September ball in Cincinnati, assuming both Louisville and the Reds are out of their pennant races. Even if he doesn't do that, he's still got his whole age 25 year to play major league ball.

    Talent evaluators continually undervalue Heisey's brand of production in favor of possibilities. And I have no idea why, aside from a blind grasping at that "next big thing".

    It's sad that Juan Duran has a much better shot at landing on a Top 100 list than does Chris Heisey.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  9. #8
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,396

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    I don't see much wrong with touting Duran over Chris. Most scouts see Heisey as a productive 4th outfielder with a somewhat low ceiling. I wonder if he is another Denorfia, but hope he is another grinder like big Paul.

    Scouting services have to look at ceiling and then project. I can envision Juan Duran as a POSSIBLE superstar because of his ceiling. Can't do the same with Heisey.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  10. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,283

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    And this would be the reason I suppose I have a really hard time respecting BA or any other talent evaluator. Heisey has done nothing but produce.
    Baseball America doesn't rate tools. They aren't scouts. They are journalists who talk to scouts to get their information.

    As for no plus tools:
    Speed
    Heisey has 79 stolen bases against only 14 caught stealing. That's in roughly 400 minor league games. This year he's improved enough that he's looking at around 30 SBs for a minor league season. That should equal out to 35-40 at the major league level.
    Smart base runners can steal very well in the minors. Smart base runners with good speed (but not great speed, Heisey doesn't have plus speed, he has above average speed) can really go wild. Heisey seems like a very smart base runner and its reflected in the SB%. I don't think he is more than a 15-20 SB guy in the majors though. Minor League SB numbers don't always translate. Take a look at Chris Dickerson, who is faster than Heisey is to see how well his 30 SB seasons have gone over in the majors.

    Power
    Lifetime 460+ slugging, with a 568 number this year. And that's just filling out, as he's shown doubles power throughout his career so far.
    Its not really filling out. He made an adjustment to his swing in the last 8 months and now is using a lot more of his legs in his swing. Before he was not timing everything well and was more of an arms swinger because his timing was off.

    Batting Eye/ Average
    Lifetime BA over 300 with a 70 percentage point jump on top of that in OBP. Too, he's really hard to K, an indicator he has bat on ball skills in the upper percentile of minor league hitters. In fact, he K's about as often as he BB's. In today's game, that's phenomenal.
    His hitability tool is likely his best one. It has always been good, this year its been much better than in the past. We will see how it goes now that he is in AAA but I just don't know if its a plus tool. Its a strong one.

    The other tool-- the glove-- has been positive his entire career. While he's not Stubbs in CF, he's in that group just below. And that ain't bad, folks.
    Yeah, but its not a plus tool. Its a good one.

    And it's not like he's old. He has a pretty decent shot of playing September ball in Cincinnati, assuming both Louisville and the Reds are out of their pennant races. Even if he doesn't do that, he's still got his whole age 25 year to play major league ball.
    He isn't old exactly, but he is a 24 year old who has less than 50 at bats in AAA. Thats old for a legit prospect in this game, at least in terms of making top prospect lists because their career value is going to take a hit some because it likely means they start their MLB career at age 25 at best.

    Talent evaluators continually undervalue Heisey's brand of production in favor of possibilities. And I have no idea why, aside from a blind grasping at that "next big thing".

    It's sad that Juan Duran has a much better shot at landing on a Top 100 list than does Chris Heisey.
    Probably because Heisey has a ceiling of a guy who may be a 2-3 time All Star if everything goes 100% right for him at this point. While guys like Duran have the ceiling to be a whole lot more than that. Sure, chance that he gets there comes into play because Heisey is at AAA right now and is a much safer bet. But the prospecting game is about what you will be, not so much how quickly you can be that.

  11. #10
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I don't see much wrong with touting Duran over Chris. Most scouts see Heisey as a productive 4th outfielder with a somewhat low ceiling. I wonder if he is another Denorfia, but hope he is another grinder like big Paul.

    Scouting services have to look at ceiling and then project. I can envision Juan Duran as a POSSIBLE superstar because of his ceiling. Can't do the same with Heisey.
    Baseball America has recently gone on record as saying they think Heisey could be an above average major leaguer.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  12. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Shelburne Falls, MA
    Posts
    10,097

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Baseball America has recently gone on record as saying they think Heisey could be an above average major league center fielder.
    He wasn't even a top 20 Reds prospect for BA coming into this year.

    Heisey's been undervalued by just about everyone. Let's hope that does not include the Reds. They've got a lot tied up in Stubbs ($$$, scouting and development egos) -- hope it doesn't cloud their judgment.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #12
    Member Cedric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Monroe
    Posts
    6,396

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Baseball America has recently gone on record as saying they think Heisey could be an above average major leaguer.
    I would love if Chris turns out to be a truly positive VORP player. I just don't know if his skills project to long term MLB success. Right now I would hitch my wagon to Stubbs if I was the Reds. High ceiling and perfect CF for GABP. In my opinion having a Torri Hunter/Mike Cameron roaming CF is something this organization has missed since ED. Hopefully Stubbs hits enough to be our dominant CF.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  14. #13
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,165

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Baseball America doesn't rate tools. They aren't scouts. They are journalists who talk to scouts to get their information.

    Smart base runners can steal very well in the minors. Smart base runners with good speed (but not great speed, Heisey doesn't have plus speed, he has above average speed) can really go wild. Heisey seems like a very smart base runner and its reflected in the SB%. I don't think he is more than a 15-20 SB guy in the majors though. Minor League SB numbers don't always translate. Take a look at Chris Dickerson, who is faster than Heisey is to see how well his 30 SB seasons have gone over in the majors.

    Its not really filling out. He made an adjustment to his swing in the last 8 months and now is using a lot more of his legs in his swing. Before he was not timing everything well and was more of an arms swinger because his timing was off.

    His hitability tool is likely his best one. It has always been good, this year its been much better than in the past. We will see how it goes now that he is in AAA but I just don't know if its a plus tool. Its a strong one.

    Yeah, but its not a plus tool. Its a good one.

    He isn't old exactly, but he is a 24 year old who has less than 50 at bats in AAA. Thats old for a legit prospect in this game, at least in terms of making top prospect lists because their career value is going to take a hit some because it likely means they start their MLB career at age 25 at best.

    Probably because Heisey has a ceiling of a guy who may be a 2-3 time All Star if everything goes 100% right for him at this point. While guys like Duran have the ceiling to be a whole lot more than that. Sure, chance that he gets there comes into play because Heisey is at AAA right now and is a much safer bet. But the prospecting game is about what you will be, not so much how quickly you can be that.
    Nice insight Doug but wasn't Joey Votto at the peak of his rankings around 50?

    I think too many times scouts and prospect rankings go overboard on tools and don't put enough emphasis on being a baseball player. Its not just the tools a player has but how well those tools translate to the baseball diamond that determine how good a player will be.

  15. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,847

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I would love if Chris turns out to be a truly positive VORP player. I just don't know if his skills project to long term MLB success. Right now I would hitch my wagon to Stubbs if I was the Reds. High ceiling and perfect CF for GABP. In my opinion having a Torri Hunter/Mike Cameron roaming CF is something this organization has missed since ED. Hopefully Stubbs hits enough to be our dominant CF.
    I would bet against Stubbs being able to put up Hunter/Cameron type numbers, particularly in the power department.
    Go BLUE!!!

  16. #15
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: BA's midseason All-Star and All-Surprise teams

    There are a ton of major leaguers who lack great tools. Dustin Pedroia, Shane Victorino, Mark DeRosa, just to name a few. Very few people thought Pedroia was a major league regular, let alone a MVP. Look at our very own Joey Votto. He was viewed by many as a horrible defensive first baseman with an average bat but through hard work he has developed into a solid defender and a great hitter. I love tools as much as the next guy but players with average tools + hard work can be stars too.
    I miss Adam Dunn.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25