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Thread: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

  1. #61
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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    So, Doug, does Lecure project as a major league starter at all, as a reliever, or as neither at the next level?
    Reliever perhaps... he has never pitched out of the pen though, so I don't really know how his stuff would play out of there. Most guys play up, but you never really know until you see it. As a starter he can be a fringy #5 guy I would say. Very similar to Matt Maloney when he (Lecure) is on his game. He can get by some days but will likely be pounded others.

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Just as impressive as Stubbs walks is Heisey going 0 for 2 with 3 rbis that is kind of hard to do

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Reliever perhaps... he has never pitched out of the pen though, so I don't really know how his stuff would play out of there. Most guys play up, but you never really know until you see it. As a starter he can be a fringy #5 guy I would say. Very similar to Matt Maloney when he (Lecure) is on his game. He can get by some days but will likely be pounded others.
    I saw Lecure pitch out of the bullpen in a spring training game against the Phillies and he was throwing gas. I was shocked because I didn't know he could throw that hard. I'm guessing he was around 93-94. He could probably be a pretty good reliever if his fastball stays in that range.
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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    I wouldn't underestimate guys like Maloney and Lecure -- they're capable of becoming solid BOR starters. Not saying they will, but they are fully developed AAA starters who are still prospect age. They've come all the way through the minors, both out of big college programs, and are now putting up excellent numbers. What this says is that they can adapt to better competition, with enough stuff, drive and intelligence to get better along the way. You cannot dismiss the possibility that they could make the next step.

    The Reds need depth for the rotation -- all teams do. They should feel they can call on either of these guys (as well as Ramirez, I'd say) at any time, remembering that if one of them fails, there's another behind him. No need to go scurrying around for BOR solutions outside the organization at this point.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I wouldn't underestimate guys like Maloney and Lecure -- they're capable of becoming solid BOR starters. Not saying they will, but they are fully developed AAA starters who are still prospect age. They've come all the way through the minors, both out of big college programs, and are now putting up excellent numbers. What this says is that they can adapt to better competition, with enough stuff, drive and intelligence to get better along the way. You cannot dismiss the possibility that they could make the next step.

    The Reds need depth for the rotation -- all teams do. They should feel they can call on either of these guys (as well as Ramirez, I'd say) at any time, remembering that if one of them fails, there's another behind him. No need to go scurrying around for BOR solutions outside the organization at this point.
    While I don't fully disagree here, you have to also remember that guys like Stewart, Wood, and eventually Leake are going to be knocking at the door soon enough as well. While it's always nice to have a Maloney/Ramirez/Lehr type ready to make a spot start or two at any given time, I would want the young super-prospects (once they're ready) to get first crack at really breaking into the rotation on a more permanent basis, not the guys that have #5 upsides.

    While I agree that it's nice to have one or two guys for rotation depth, it becomes superfluous to have four or five of them, especially when you have real prospects with upside knocking on the door. Not to mention, they are going to take up rotation spots in Louisville that should be going to the young prospects.

    While certainly none of the guys I mentioned are ready now, at least one or two of them will probably be knocking on the door by this time next season.
    Last edited by Benihana; 07-07-2009 at 09:25 AM.
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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    While I don't fully disagree here, you have to also remember that guys like Stewart, Wood, and eventually Leake are going to be knocking at the door soon enough as well. While it's always nice to have a Maloney/Ramirez/Lehr type ready to make a spot start or two at any given time, I would want the young super-prospects (once they're ready) to get first crack at really breaking into the rotation on a more permanent basis, not the guys that have #5 upsides.

    While I agree that it's nice to have one or two guys for rotation depth, it becomes superfluous to have four or five of them, especially when you have real prospects with upside knocking on the door.

    While certainly none of the guys I mentioned are ready now, at least one or two of them will probably be knocking on the door by this time next season.
    Let's wait until this time next season to make that determination. Leake is pure speculation at this point -- I would make no assumptions about him. Wood is the closest in that he's got a starter's training -- but he's done nothing in AAA yet. Stewart has a ways to go to build up innings. He does have the best stuff of any of these guys,
    but it's optimistic to think he's going to be ready to take on a regular turn in a big league rotation in the latter part of next year -- more likely they'll work him in through the pen. Down the road, yes -- if he stays healthy, he moves in front of Lecure and Maloney.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Let's wait until this time next season to make that determination. Leake is pure speculation at this point -- I would make no assumptions about him. Wood is the closest in that he's got a starter's training -- but he's done nothing in AAA yet. Stewart has a ways to go to build up innings. He does have the best stuff of any of these guys,
    but it's optimistic to think he's going to be ready to take on a regular turn in a big league rotation in the latter part of next year -- more likely they'll work him in through the pen. Down the road, yes -- if he stays healthy, he moves in front of Lecure and Maloney.
    That's fair, but I would hope and assume that at least one of "The Big Three" will be performing at a level where the Reds would have to at least consider him for an extended tryout come this time next year. Unless the big league staff continues to get decimated by injuries (even worse than they are now,) I can't envision a situation where they'd have a need for (all of) Ramirez, Maloney, Lehr and LeCure. Obviously, in that scenario, the season would be lost regardless so it wouldn't really matter.

    Nick Masset is another guy that could probably handle spot-starting duties if necessary. With the emergence of Herrera and possibly Viola and even Smit, it might also be interesting to try Bray out as a starter in Louisville when he comes back, provided he could ever stay healthy. Although admittedly, his health may preclude that from ever being a possibility.
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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Nick Masset is another guy that could probably handle spot-starting duties if necessary. With the emergence of Herrera and possibly Viola and even Smit, it might also be interesting to try Bray out as a starter in Louisville when he comes back, provided he could ever stay healthy. Although admittedly, his health may preclude that from ever being a possibility.
    This is the kind of stuff I'd hope the organization would avoid. They've got the depth now -- no need to start changing guys' roles. Masset and Bray have shown they can be decent out of the pen -- especially Masset. No way would I force him back to starting, just as he's starting to show excellence for the 1st time at the major league level.

    When you've got depth, it allows you to avoid desperation moves like that.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Don't forget that LeCure is still developing. This is his first year in AAA and two months ago he was not doing very well. He might be at his ceiling and he might not have reached it yet.

    Soon, it's going to be time to make a decision on some of the pitching at Louisville. Maloney, LeCure, Ramirez, Lehr, and to a lesser degree Jukich. There's already filler on the Bats roster that could be removed to make room for prospects. Pettyjohn and Kennard and maybe Baez. But I don't see many relievers ready to come up from Carolina except for Ondrusek. (Maybe Lutz) Stewart was a good fit because he moved to the pen. But Wood won't. If he came up now, he would take Jukich's spot. Jukich can do pretty well if he starts but has not done well at all out of the pen.
    Last edited by GOYA; 07-07-2009 at 11:05 AM.

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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by GOYA View Post
    Don't forget that LeCure is still developing. This is his first year in AAA and two months ago he was not doing very well. He might be at his ceiling and he might not have reached it yet.

    Soon, it's going to be time to make a decision on some of the pitching at Louisville. Maloney, LeCure, Ramirez, Lehr, and to a lesser degree Jukich. There's already filler on the Bats roster that could be removed to make room for prospects. Pettyjohn and Kennard and maybe Baez. But I don't see many relievers ready to come up from Carolina except for Ondrusek. (Maybe Lutz) Stewart was a good fit because he moved to the pen. But Wood won't. If he came up now, he would take Jukich's spot. Jukich can do pretty well if he starts but has not done well at all out of the pen.
    To me that is pretty simple: Wood replaces Jukich (they're both lefties, and Wood is 5+ years younger). Trade Jukich for whatever you can- even if it's the proverbial PTBNL/future considerations.
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    Re: Monday 7/6/09 minor league updates

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Is Byron Wiley considered to be much of a prospect? After that 3 HR game, I started to wonder...
    He is, IMO. Here is a post I made on Wiley back in late March:

    I'm glad you mentioned Byron Wiley. I'm looking forward to seeing how he performs in Dayton this season. Baseball America rated him as the best athlete drafted by the Reds in 2008 and he was also rated as having the best strike-zone discipline among Big-12 hitters going into last year. I was looking at a couple scouting reports on him from Baseball America. They refer to him as a superior athlete with 5-tools. He's got above-average bat speed, a compact swing and can hit for power. He plays a nice center field, though his arm is below-average.

    The reason he fell to the Reds in the 22nd round is because he struggled mightily in his senior year. BA said he got draftitis while trying to do too much to impress scouts. His stats show that. As a freshman at Kansas State he hit .297/.425/.483 - .908 in 145 atbats. As a sophomore he hit .366/.494/.526 -1.020 OPS in 194 atbats. This past year he dropped off to a lowly .639 OPS and fell to the Reds in the 22nd round. After signing, he went to Billings and hit .328/.427/.635 - 1.062 OPS and had 27 extra-base hits in 137 atbats.

    He's got great tools and good plate discipline. I'm curious to see if he can carry his success into Dayton this season.

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