Let's all face it, we have been waiting for EE's potential. It hasn't happened and as long as another team thinks they can turn him around then he has value. (Never thought I would say that). Time to move forward. Bye EE I wish you the best, but we want a 3rd baseman that HAS performed in the past and present.
and 2006 was the last year he was ever healthyOriginally Posted by texasdave
Rolen was injured in 05, 07, 08. 3 of the last 4 years. but you want to say Edwin has health problems ....
You couldn't be more wrong. I have consistently been one of the staunchest Homer Bailey supporters around. Same for Bruce. Never EVER given up on either. But EdE is 26 now, I believe, and he's just not getting any better. But thanks for playing.
“The crows seem to be calling my name,” thought Caw.
He has hit better than Rolen has the last 2 years. I dont want to say I love Edwin but is he worth giving up on for Rolen? Rolen has a messed up back, a messed up shoulder, and add to the injuries already hes playing on turf. I just dont see why you would sell low on Edwin, just to buy high on Rolen.
Rolen is a gold-glove defender and has proven over his career that he is a good hitter. And Rolen is healthy now. Heck, I'd be fine with keeping EdE and shipping them someone else for Rolen provided we had plans to move Edwin to the outfield or something but EdE's future is clearly not at third. It's not the ideal move if we're looking to be buyers, and I feel this team should be selling...but there's just no question it makes us better and puts us in a decent position to compete in this horrible division.
“The crows seem to be calling my name,” thought Caw.
Well did the trade happened or not?
PROVE ME WRONG, REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!
I dont know if I trust that rolen is going to be healthy enough to be worth the salary or be worth giving up a decent play in edwin who even though is 26 is still pretty young.
Certainly Rolen's health is a concern but, let's face it - we've been without EdE almost this entire season anyway. Health is such a freaking gamble when you're talking about grown men playing 140+ baseball games in a year.
“The crows seem to be calling my name,” thought Caw.
The only reason not to do this is if you think Edwin is the Answer at 3B beyond 2010. If you think that, then fine: this trade becomes unfathomably stupid.
But if you look at our farm system and posit a solution at 3B in 2011 NOT named Encarnacion (and we might have one by then), then you have to SERIOUSLY think about this deal. Rolen's not the Answer beyond 2010, either... but he sure could be the simultaneous stopgap/upgrade who gets us to 2011. And it's really not THAT big of a difference in dollars. Edwin makes $5m next year; Rolen makes $11m.
If they repeat their 2009s, that extra payroll is MORE than worth it. If they just regress to the proverbial "backs of their baseball cards," it's still probably worth it. That's a pair of dice worth rolling, I think.
But hey, why do a relatively straight-up deal? Go big or go home, I say! If the Reds are somehow magically going to be in the market for legit difference-makers like Rolen (even though we probably need 3 Difference Makers to seriously think about the playoffs this year), then why not fantasize about the Reds doing a blockbuster?
How about:
Edwin Encarnacion
Bronson Arroyo (a/k/a "Inverse Pile o' Cash")
3 Legit Prospects (1 of our aging-but-solid MiLB RP, 1 of Stubbs/Heisey, 1 other)
FOR
Scott Rolen
Roy Halladay
Alex Rios (a/k/a "Ginormous Contract Boy")
Toronto gets "plug-and-play" replacements at 3B and SP that are MLB proven, but cheaper than what they're paying for now. Also: both EE and Arroyo are off the books after 2010, and will be good for at least type-B compensation draft picks.
The Reds get upgrades at 3B and SP, at a nominal increase in cost, but like Toronto, they can be off the hook with both after 2010. And unlike Toronto, the Reds are all-but guaranteed that Rolen and Halladay would BOTH be Type-A free agents, and that'd be like 4 free draft picks. In other words: the salary differential for one-and-one-half seasons nets us 4 extra top 50 picks.
After that, it gets sticky, because you're basically taking on Rios' contract in exchange for 3 promising prospects (albeit ones where we'd deal from areas of surplus, especially in CF and RP). For Toronto, this is the deal sweetener that they NEED to pull the trigger on the trade. For us, it's a giant risk that the "change of scenery" works out for Rios and turns him into the everyday corner OF we'd need him to be in exchange for the $60m he's got remaining on a contract through the middle of next decade.
But hey, like I said: go big or go home. If we're imagining XBox-style fantasy trades, then why not imagine this one?
Rick
Last edited by FlightRick; 07-08-2009 at 11:24 PM.
the blue jays game isn't over yet, they can't annouce any trade until the game is over.
PROVE ME WRONG, REDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND THEY DID!!!!!!!!!!
You must be kidding right? Please tell me you are kidding. Edwin has had a so called up side for years but all we get is his down side and his lack of emotion and drive to win and get better. I would make this trade in a heart beat.
Hell, I'd do it for the glove alone.:
Rounding third and heading for home...
I dont understand why we would address the 3B need which, although a need, isnt as glaring as SS or OF. I am not an EE apologist, nor do I think he is going to realize this great "potential" we always talk about. But I am still more comfortable with him at 3rd than Hairston/Gonzo/Janish at SS or a platoon in LF.
If we're making a big deal, lets go for those positions.
jays game just ended
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