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Thread: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

  1. #91
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    How bad are the Mets hitting right now?

    I heard this comment from a Mets announcer last night:
    "The Reds are an impressive hitting ballclub"
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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  3. #92
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Agree with AK that Arroyo's stuff was much crisper than it has been recently. True, the Mets are a weak hitting team, but there are a couple tough outs still in that lineup.

    You have to acknowledge the possibility that Arroyo will continue to bounce back strong, as he did last year in the 2nd half. The guy is just very tough to figure.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  4. #93
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by NJReds View Post
    How bad are the Mets hitting right now?

    I heard this comment from a Mets announcer last night:
    "The Reds are an impressive hitting ballclub"
    From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

    Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #94
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

    Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......
    True. But it seemed like he started every hitter with strike 1 (and the Mets hitters kept taking strike 1) ... and he used that to his advantage.
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......
    So what?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #96
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    From an offensive standpoint last night was like watching two snails run the 50-yard dash.

    Even though facing the flaccid lineup that the Mets ran out last night, Arroyo managed swinging strikes on just 5% of his pitches......
    So, they took a lot of pitches and/or grounded out weakly to someone. Sometimes stats are just stats.

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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    So what?
    He's done the same thing in virtually all of his starts; most success he's had this season has come via luck. And the fact that he faced a worse offense than the Reds' last night.

    He's been terrible so far this season, and last night's performance didn't indicate in any way that he's turned any kind of corner.

  9. #98
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He's done the same thing in virtually all of his starts; most success he's had this season has come via luck. And the fact that he faced a worse offense than the Reds' last night.

    He's been terrible so far this season, and last night's performance didn't indicate in any way that he's turned any kind of corner.
    That's likely true, but I'd guess that if he keeps punding the strikezone like he did last night, the swinging strikes will increase by virtue of having hitters increase their strikezone later in the count. I think his stuff was 'workable' last night, at the very least, and that's something I was honestly thinking about since the 2nd inning, so I don't think that opinion is too influenced by the results against the Mets line-up.

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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    It's no surprise to any of us who follow closely that Arroyo has had to evolve as a pitcher. He doesn't strike out as many as he did when he first came over from the AL. The league knows him better, he may have lost something off the fastball, and it sounds as if he hasn't been quite right physically due to the carpal tunnel. Last year, he innovated successfully with the two seam fastball and had a good 2nd half. We'll see if he's able to turn things around this year -- no one is denying it's been rocky, no one's saying last night's start means he's turned a corner. But it is definitely true he was sharper last night. Like AK, I could see it early on. Firmer fastball, better late break on the curve, a nice change (which I think is the new frontier for Arroyo). Most of all, very good command. It wasn't all about the weak hitting Mets.

    Arroyo is not predictable start to start or month to month. Sitting back and proclaiming he stinks ignores what makes Arroyo Arroyo, what makes him interesting, and what makes games he pitches worth watching, in my opinion. If you believed he was wall to wall awful, why watch?
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #100
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    Re: 7/10/09 Reds vs Mets

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    It's no surprise to any of us who follow closely that Arroyo has had to evolve as a pitcher. He doesn't strike out as many as he did when he first came over from the AL. The league knows him better, he may have lost something off the fastball, and it sounds as if he hasn't been quite right physically due to the carpal tunnel. Last year, he innovated successfully with the two seam fastball and had a good 2nd half. We'll see if he's able to turn things around this year -- no one is denying it's been rocky, no one's saying last night's start means he's turned a corner. But it is definitely true he was sharper last night. Like AK, I could see it early on. Firmer fastball, better late break on the curve, a nice change (which I think is the new frontier for Arroyo). Most of all, very good command. It wasn't all about the weak hitting Mets.

    Arroyo is not predictable start to start or month to month. Sitting back and proclaiming he stinks ignores what makes Arroyo Arroyo, what makes him interesting, and what makes games he pitches worth watching, in my opinion. If you believed he was wall to wall awful, why watch?

    I didn't say Arroyo wasn't interesting or that he hasn't been good before; I said he's stunk this season. Pick a metric, go on anecdotal evidence: he's stunk.


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