How to discuss something without being frustrated...

[Kingspoint]

The invention of the SunDeck supposedly helps this out a bit.

But, after reading a lot of the Old Red Guard posts about EE, it seems like the Old Red Guard could have a further split.

A wise man once said, if you want to discuss something with the masses, it's better to say little or nothing at all. Wait until there are fewer people around who can understand you better.

If you're looking to make sense about something, a "forum" isn't the place to do it.

For me, there's great information to be found here about the Minor Leagues of the REDS, the MLB Draft, and the REDS' players themselves....and the organization, too.

But, as far as discussing what's good for the team/organization or what's bad for the team/organization it's impossible. It's just not possible to have a discussion where logic and reason get used to support opinions. And, when logic and reason are used, there's little acceptance of facts and more ignoring of them because for some reason, it's not OK to be "wrong" about anything.

It's not about being "wrong". Nobody cares if someone is "wrong". It's just about getting correct information out there.

You can't have a bar discussion here because of the rules. That's OK, too.

The best discussions seem to get done in private chats, kind of when you're at a baseball game and you're just talking to the person next to you, before some nosy buddy butts in from 3 rows back and 5 seats over.

One problem I have though, is I have to wonder if the fans who go to REDS games in Cincinnati are similar to those that post here.

Are the ideas of fans that come to this board representative of the ideas of fans who attend the games in Cincinnati? Is the balance of knowledge the same?

Not being from Cincinnati, I try to get a feel about the REDS' fans IN Cincinnati. I am really curious if what I see here is a close sample of what it is in Cincinnati.

[thorn]

Everyone has opinions on players, everyone like or dislikes players for various reasons. Opionions are like (Well you know) everyone has one. Then only problem with facts are, people only use part of them to justify their opinion, facts or parts of facts, can be thrown about all day to justify positions. Things aren't always black and white, even the so called facts. It's the whole boddy of work, including non-stats that make up who a player really is and what he means to each individual. It's not the fact that people take positions, one side or the other, it's those that can't refrain from snark remarks or personal attacks that really make me not post more. Just accept the fact that people are different and IMO, they don't use stats to tell the whole story, just your position on one.

[Kingspoint]

Everyone has opinions on players, everyone like or dislikes players for various reasons. Opionions are like (Well you know) everyone has one. Then only problem with facts are, people only use part of them to justify their opinion, facts or parts of facts, can be thrown about all day to justify positions. Things aren't always black and white, even the so called facts. It's the whole boddy of work, including non-stats that make up who a player really is and what he means to each individual. It's not the fact that people take positions, one side or the other, it's those that can't refrain from snark remarks or personal attacks that really make me not post more. Just accept the fact that people are different and IMO, they don't use stats to tell the whole story, just your position on one.

Agreed.

I was thinking of starting a website where you have to pass a test on the fundamentals of baseball before you can post. Dusty Baker would fail the test miserably.

An example of a question would be:

Offensive Production is to Batting Average as Marriage Success is to:

A) Having had a girlfriend once
B) Listening to your spouse
C) Being sympathetic to your spouses needs
D) Not bringing attention to their faults while praising their virtues

[gilpdawg]

The invention of the SunDeck supposedly helps this out a bit.

But, after reading a lot of the Old Red Guard posts about EE, it seems like the Old Red Guard could have a further split.

A wise man once said, if you want to discuss something with the masses, it's better to say little or nothing at all. Wait until there are fewer people around who can understand you better.

If you're looking to make sense about something, a "forum" isn't the place to do it.

For me, there's great information to be found here about the Minor Leagues of the REDS, the MLB Draft, and the REDS' players themselves....and the organization, too.

But, as far as discussing what's good for the team/organization or what's bad for the team/organization it's impossible. It's just not possible to have a discussion where logic and reason get used to support opinions. And, when logic and reason are used, there's little acceptance of facts and more ignoring of them because for some reason, it's not OK to be "wrong" about anything.

It's not about being "wrong". Nobody cares if someone is "wrong". It's just about getting correct information out there.

You can't have a bar discussion here because of the rules. That's OK, too.

The best discussions seem to get done in private chats, kind of when you're at a baseball game and you're just talking to the person next to you, before some nosy buddy butts in from 3 rows back and 5 seats over.

One problem I have though, is I have to wonder if the fans who go to REDS games in Cincinnati are similar to those that post here.

Are the ideas of fans that come to this board representative of the ideas of fans who attend the games in Cincinnati? Is the balance of knowledge the same?

Not being from Cincinnati, I try to get a feel about the REDS' fans IN Cincinnati. I am really curious if what I see here is a close sample of what it is in Cincinnati.

The fans at the game for the most part, just parrot what they hear people like Marty and Hal say. This board is not representative of fans at the game AT ALL, IMO.

[Newman4]

But, after reading a lot of the Old Red Guard posts about EE, it seems like the Old Red Guard could have a further split.

Are we Sun Deckers going to be renamed the $5 Dollar Seats to make room for all the malcontents of ORG lol

[Captain Hook]

The fans at the game for the most part, just parrot what they hear people like Marty and Hal say. This board is not representative of fans at the game AT ALL, IMO.

I am friends with a bunch of other Reds fans and speaking from experience I couldn't agree more.I wish I had a dollar for every time one of my buddies wanted to make a point about the Reds and started of by saying "well, according to Marty".In here your more likely to have someone start their post with"well, according to Bill James".

There is imo a very different bread of Reds fans that resides in the redszone.When ever I talk to someone that is really into something whether it is music,movies,sports or whatever and they really know their stuff I can sometimes since a sort of elitism in there voice.I'd guess that at some point or another a lot of us come across that way in here(not only, but especially in the org).I have to admit that I know a little more about baseball from reading some of the post though.I think that is the point of this site.To inform the fans that are looking for something more then the opinion of your average WLW man in the box .Sure there are a ton of opinions that are thrown around here to but if you can look past the opinions,(even some of the bad ones) there is a ton of good baseball knowledge floating around.

[NastyBoy]

I am one of the Reds fans that posts occasionally on this board and I live in Cincinnati and attend Reds games and buy the $5 view level seats or $7 bleacher seats. I come here because to see what average people are talking about when it comes to the Reds. Is EE a good player or a bad player? I don't really know, but I am sure the elitists do.

[Maldez]

The problems with this message board are not unique to Redszone posters, but are universal to all sports message boards. The core of the problem is this:

Poster A sits down at his PC and, wanting to share with the Reds community a thought he's been having about his Reds, bangs out a post. And that post will say something like "WE NEED TO TRADE JOHNNY CUETO NOW !!" And that post will go into all the reasons that Cueto has already realized his potential as a major leaguer, will never be more than average ever again,all for reasons that only Poster A is sharp enough to have discerned. But he's going to treat us to his insights.

Now fans with rational minds and reasonable intelligence will read this post and and feel their blood pressure rise 50 points. So they feel compelled to tell Poster A just what a "useless" post he has contributed to the site, which begins an avalanche of name-calling, snarling and ill-will.

And this, my friends, is why sports message boards generally end up needing to be monitored, policed, and in some extreme cases, segregated into tiers of worthiness.

[kfm]

The same stats mean different things to different people. Some people love stats when they support their position and then find an excuse to ignore them when they don't. We all have biases that cloud our view. So we like person A for some reason we find reasons to ignore their lack of production, then we dislike player B and find reasons to ignore their production. This board is pretty representative of what you find at most major league parks I have been to, some fans who don't have a clue, some fans who really know the game and some fans who think they invented baseball. I come here because the Reds are my favorite sports team after my OSU buckeyes and I love to talk, watch and listen to the Reds.

[flash]

Good thread

To begin with I haven't been to a professional game in a least ten years.

But

I see a lot of games albeit at the high school level. I attend a lot of the games for the the high school I teach at. Those coaches would have a fit watching major leaguers. I could just hear our coach last night when Rosales hit his double. ("Don't look behind you, you look at me.")

I watch a lot of games on MLB.com. I do take the annoucers with a grain of salt. I have heard them say some things that are just downright wrong. Besides MLB.com lets you see so much more than you would seeat the park even with a pair of binoculars.

I also pay a lot of attention to stats epecially at the minor league level. I like guys that hit for average over the home-run hitter. Don't get me wrong, I like the three-run jack, but a base hit would be nice too. It keeps the merry go round going. What I can't stand are strike outs with two men on. I hate DP's too, but I guess you have to live with the hard hit/ well fielded ball.

As far as posting, this site is all right. Most of the posters seem to know what they are talking about even if they are wrong. It is better than the Cincinnati.com forum where everyone thinks they invented baseball.

[Kingspoint]

Good responses everyone. Seriously. They have all been great.

It's nice to discuss something without the emotional attachment of a player or representative of the REDS being involved. Everyone's maturity level just skyrocketed.