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Thread: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

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  1. #1
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    I stumbled across (what I believe) to be a very important story this evening. This could have a major impact on the NCAA and the structure of its so-called amateurism.

    Apparently, former UCLA basketball star Ed O'Bannon is leading a class-action lawsuit on behalf of NCAA basketball and football players against the NCAA for using their likeness and images in games, DVD's, apparel, pictures and other materials.

    He alleges the NCAA forces athletes to sign over their rights as their likenesses are exploited for profit by institutions, athletic departments and the NCAA. I can't say I disagree with him.

    If this is successful, it could open the floodgates.

    Former Bruin O'Bannon Sues NCAA
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    I have to say, I like the system as its currently set up but I recognize the inherent unfairness in it.
    On the one hand...
    I always think its too simplistic to say the players get a scholarship and nothing else. Even for players who don't make the league, there's a notoriety gained that helps in whatever post graduate work they do.
    Jared Odle may be a fine insurance salesman on his own, but the fact that he played for IU gets him into a lot of doors that may otherwise not be open.

    On the other hand...
    Even taking that into account, dollar for dollar, the top players are giving up a lot of money.

    The real problem is there's no way to fairly compensate the top players and also provide scholarship opportunities for everyone else much less the 1000's of athletes in non revenue sports. Really, it's not like the NCAA makes profit anyways, all the money is redistributed to the member athletic departments, many of which run in the red. If Tim Tebow wants to look at whose "taking" his money, he should look at his coach first, than at the rest of the athletes in sports that don't make any money.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I always think its too simplistic to say the players get a scholarship and nothing else. Even for players who don't make the league, there's a notoriety gained that helps in whatever post graduate work they do.
    Jared Odle may be a fine insurance salesman on his own, but the fact that he played for IU gets him into a lot of doors that may otherwise not be open.
    Assuming they stay where they played...I have no idea who Jared Odle is, I'm assuming IU folks do, but if he leaves the state of Indiana, how many people know him? Top level guys will go on to play pro ball most likely, but even the mid level guys probably aren't that known outside of their area.

    one example, Cole Magner, set numerous BGSU receiving records, but is playing Arena football now, most people probably wouldn't be able to pick him out of a lineup outside of Alaska (hometown) or NW Ohio...

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by freestyle55 View Post
    Assuming they stay where they played...I have no idea who Jared Odle is, I'm assuming IU folks do, but if he leaves the state of Indiana, how many people know him? Top level guys will go on to play pro ball most likely, but even the mid level guys probably aren't that known outside of their area.

    one example, Cole Magner, set numerous BGSU receiving records, but is playing Arena football now, most people probably wouldn't be able to pick him out of a lineup outside of Alaska (hometown) or NW Ohio...
    Then again, what exactly did Cole Magner provide to BGSU? Did BGSU make a bunch of money off of his abilities? That's not quite the same as a Tim Tebow, who has made millions for Florida but who would be set for life in Florida even if he blew out both ACLs tomorrow and could never play again.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    That's a fair point Freestyle, yes Jared Odle played at IU on the 2002 team. He's used that noteriety to his advantage here in Indianapolis.
    Admittedly it's only advantageous in Indy or in the state, but that still puts him ahead of roughly 7,500 other seniors from his class and every class behind him.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    One other point, it would be interesting to try and tell the difference between what Florida has made with Tebow vs hypothetically without him.

    It's not like they've sold more seats with him,(I assume Florida sells out every game anyway.)
    Sure they've sold a lot of 15 jerseys but they'd sell jerseys for whatever player came through the pipeline. My memory is hazy, but I vaguely remember schools can't put the athlete's name on the jerseys, it just has to be a "15 Florida" jersey.

    It will be interesting as evidence is presented how much the schools financially benefit from the top athletes, how much from the mid level athletes and so on.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Meanwhile, most top high school players pick a university for which to play based upon the level of national exposure the school will provide them.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    Meanwhile, most top high school players pick a university for which to play based upon the level of national exposure the school will provide them.
    Kind of like the chicken or the egg though.

    They pick schools to maximize their exposure. But the good players, when they get there, also increase the school's exposure the better they are - thereby creating more profit for the institution.

    Kind of cuts both ways, I think.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Great lets just allow college kids to join a union...

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    Great lets just allow college kids to join a union...
    We should. College athletes in major sports are exploited. Until the NFL or NBA allows players to be drafted out of high school, they are forced to go to college. Top athletes don't stay to graduate. They don't need a degree to pursue their careers but are forced to go to college. They aren't there for an education. They are there because they are forced to go there in order to play in the NBA or NFL. These schools are profiting majorly off of some of these kids.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    We should. College athletes in major sports are exploited. Until the NFL or NBA allows players to be drafted out of high school, they are forced to go to college. Top athletes don't stay to graduate. They don't need a degree to pursue their careers but are forced to go to college. They aren't there for an education. They are there because they are forced to go there in order to play in the NBA or NFL. These schools are profiting majorly off of some of these kids.
    And those "profits" from mens basketball & football go to subsidize the scholarships & operations of all of the other non-revenue sports in a given school's athletic program, including about 99% of all womens' athletic programs.

    So if the school "profits", the dividend recipients aren't some investors sitting on a beach. Instead, the beneficiaries are hundreds of other kids who work just as hard in more obscure sports with the knowledge that going pro isn't a viable financial option & thus work towards the all-important degree.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    And those "profits" from mens basketball & football go to subsidize the scholarships & operations of all of the other non-revenue sports in a given school's athletic program, including about 99% of all womens' athletic programs.

    So if the school "profits", the dividend recipients aren't some investors sitting on a beach. Instead, the beneficiaries are hundreds of other kids who work just as hard in more obscure sports with the knowledge that going pro isn't a viable financial option & thus work towards the all-important degree.
    Maybe sports that are hemorrhaging shouldn't exist at that university then? I have friends who participated in non traditional power sports in college. They certainly weren't making money for the school and certainly other sports were supporting them. With that said, those friends could have participated in those sports just as well outside of the University.

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe sports that are hemorrhaging shouldn't exist at that university then? I have friends who participated in non traditional power sports in college. They certainly weren't making money for the school and certainly other sports were supporting them. With that said, those friends could have participated in those sports just as well outside of the University.
    As a huge fan of college football and basketball, I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth here, but college athletic programs were not created to be a profit center for the university. If the non-revenue programs shouldn't exist because they're unprofitable, then maybe the football and basketball teams shouldn't exist because they have little to do with higher education these days. That is what the university's supposed to be about...
    Not all who wander are lost

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe sports that are hemorrhaging shouldn't exist at that university then? I have friends who participated in non traditional power sports in college. They certainly weren't making money for the school and certainly other sports were supporting them. With that said, those friends could have participated in those sports just as well outside of the University.
    So revenues are the most important factor in inter collegiate sports eh?

    Maybe the folks that don't get the internet can kick back with the folks on the cross country team in your world right Doug?

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    Re: NCAA Amateurism Facing Test

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Maybe sports that are hemorrhaging shouldn't exist at that university then?
    Title IX says "hello".


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