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Thread: BA's Untouchable Prospects

  1. #31
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Projection and the likelihood of reaching that projection is why he was #1 over Frazier. He projects to be a better major leaguer. Numbers only tell us so much. Even still, I like Alonso's numbers more than Fraziers. Much better plate discipline and the power has been about the same (.193 isoP in AA for Frazier this year at age 23 and a .183 in the FSL and SL for Alonso at age 22). Combine the two and Alonso looks to be like a guy who will be a better overall hitter and the positional downgrade is minimum.
    Your agument doesn't mesh with the results, and the results say Alonso doesn't hit LH pitching, hasn't produced any real power after leaving the league that suppresses said power, remember, like you said with Stubbs? We were supposed to see this spike in his power once he left the FSL. Never happened.

    Right now I see Alonso as having a Pete Incagvilia feel to him. Lots of hype, not so much in the results.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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  3. #32
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Right now I see Alonso as having a Pete Incagvilia feel to him.
    Oh my. You're really stirring the pot now.

  4. #33
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I disagree. Once you look past our disagreements on the players themselves, when doug and i argue, usually a lot of info/opinions get floated.

    besides, its fun.
    I love to read a good debate, what has been going on recently though hasn't been debate, it has been:
    I told you so
    I am so smart
    You don't know what you are talking about
    You are wrong

    These recent posts have been more about trying to call out and belittle certain posters, than they are about discussing players. Reading through that slop is off putting to say the least.

    TRF, I am not really looking at you.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  5. #34
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Your agument doesn't mesh with the results, and the results say Alonso doesn't hit LH pitching, hasn't produced any real power after leaving the league that suppresses said power, remember, like you said with Stubbs? We were supposed to see this spike in his power once he left the FSL. Never happened.

    Right now I see Alonso as having a Pete Incagvilia feel to him. Lots of hype, not so much in the results.
    Results don't matter until the majors. And my argument does mesh with the results. Alonso has 33 walks and 40 strikeouts in 286 PA (11.5% and 13.9%) with an isoP almost the same as Frazier on this season despite playing most of it in the FSL. Frazier has 32 walks and 51 strikeouts in 408 PA this year (7.8% and 12.5%) and wasn't close to that in 2008 (10.3% and 20.7%).

    As for the lefties.... Alonso had no problem with them in college (.329/.469/.678 with 14 HR, 38 BB and 28K over his soph/jun years). As for his pro career, he has 51 at bats against lefties, 6 walks and 10 strikeouts. He hasn't shown that he can hit lefties as a pro yet, but I certainly don't have any issues with what he has done against them so far either in an incredibly small sample size.

    And are you really calling me out on Alonso's power spiking after a total of 61 at bats in AA? Where if he were to hit a HR in his next AB his isoP would just 36 points?

  6. #35
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    "I don't dislike any player in the system."

    Did I read that right? Forget the specifics of who, discernment is a critical part of evaluation.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #36
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Orenda View Post
    IF he adds 10 lbs of lean muscle a year over the next 2-3 seasons he's now at 165-175 lbs. That is not an impossible feat to accomplish, especially for a pro athlete with access to trainers and maybe a nutritionist (plus he's in a good farm system who might hire people who have some knowledge about these things). He's not going to ever be a big guy and probably wouldn't have much power but I think that statement is pretty laughable.
    Have you seen him before? I really don't think he has room to get to 165. He has the frame of a 14 year old, but at 21, he isn't likely to get larger.

    Here are some photo's I took of him in late April this year.


    Here is a video I also took of him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyaWfMOLYHc

  8. #37
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Have you seen him before? I really don't think he has room to get to 165. He has the frame of a 14 year old, but at 21, he isn't likely to get larger.

    Here are some photo's I took of him in late April this year.


    Here is a video I also took of him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyaWfMOLYHc
    I weighed 145 at 19.
    I weighed 165 at 22.
    I weighed 185 at 25.

    without growing an inch. And I've never been close to overweight.

    It's ridiculous to suggest a 21 year old as underdeveloped as Brown is can't add 20 lbs. It's possible, trust me.
    Go BLUE!!!

  9. #38
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I weighed 145 at 19.
    I weighed 165 at 22.
    I weighed 185 at 25.

    without growing an inch. And I've never been close to overweight.

    It's ridiculous to suggest a 21 year old as underdeveloped as Brown is can't add 20 lbs. It's possible, trust me.
    I bet your frame looked a little bit different than his does too. I assume you meant Gordon when you said Brown. I just don't see him having the frame to put on 15-20 pounds without getting fat. Could be wrong, but I just don't see it.

  10. #39
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Your agument doesn't mesh with the results, and the results say Alonso doesn't hit LH pitching, hasn't produced any real power after leaving the league that suppresses said power, remember, like you said with Stubbs? We were supposed to see this spike in his power once he left the FSL. Never happened.

    Right now I see Alonso as having a Pete Incagvilia feel to him. Lots of hype, not so much in the results.
    Are you serious? Do you even look at stats before you make these statements? Bronson Arroy has a .900+ OPS against the Padres, does that mean we should use him as a pinch hitter when we play them?

  11. #40
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Have you seen him before? I really don't think he has room to get to 165. He has the frame of a 14 year old, but at 21, he isn't likely to get larger.

    Here are some photo's I took of him in late April this year.


    Here is a video I also took of him.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyaWfMOLYHc
    No I've never seen him but looking at the picture i am going to have to disagree with you there Doug. He looks like a skinny guy to me, not at all like a guy who has maxed out his frame, he also looks like he gets around the bases nicely. I think your assessment that he isn't going to have much power is probably likely but your wrong about him not being able to add weight. At 21, it might take some patience before he is ready (if the weightgain is done properly) so I could see a team not wanting to wait around for him to fill out (no pun intended).
    Last edited by Orenda; 07-30-2009 at 06:40 PM.

  12. #41
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by GIDP View Post
    Are you serious? Do you even look at stats before you make these statements? Bronson Arroy has a .900+ OPS against the Padres, does that mean we should use him as a pinch hitter when we play them?
    Yeah, that's a great comp.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  13. #42
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Results don't matter until the majors. And my argument does mesh with the results. Alonso has 33 walks and 40 strikeouts in 286 PA (11.5% and 13.9%) with an isoP almost the same as Frazier on this season despite playing most of it in the FSL. Frazier has 32 walks and 51 strikeouts in 408 PA this year (7.8% and 12.5%) and wasn't close to that in 2008 (10.3% and 20.7%).
    Horse Hockey.

    Results + Age + development track. That's what matters, and It's probably why both Bruce and Homer have struggled. Neither got the development they needed. Bruce really needed all of 2008 in the minors. He really did. Homer needed to never even sniff the Reds roster as he never dominated a single level. Cueto probably should have spent 2008 with Louisville, but he kicked the door down in 2007, something Homer was unable to do. Bruce didn't stomp through the minors like Dunn did. It's really ok to wait, to have a little patience with the younger guys. I know you advocate that to an extent.

    But when a guy clearly shows he cannot handle the level he is in, if he is a #1 pick you defend him like a mother bear cub. It's really ok for you to criticize the Reds development department. They have done a piss poor job of handling Homer, Stubbs, even Bruce. Todd Frazier is likely the Reds best hitting prospect, and he doesn't have a position. For as many things as they do get right, like limiting Stewarts innings, they get twice as many wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    As for the lefties.... Alonso had no problem with them in college (.329/.469/.678 with 14 HR, 38 BB and 28K over his soph/jun years). As for his pro career, he has 51 at bats against lefties, 6 walks and 10 strikeouts. He hasn't shown that he can hit lefties as a pro yet, but I certainly don't have any issues with what he has done against them so far either in an incredibly small sample size.

    And are you really calling me out on Alonso's power spiking after a total of 61 at bats in AA? Where if he were to hit a HR in his next AB his isoP would just 36 points?
    You mean he had power in college with metal bats? That almost never happens. Just like it almost never happens that a college power hitter has trouble adjusting to wood bats, or better pitching. You can say all he needed was just 1 HR to make his power numbers spike. Well, he didn't hit that 1 HR. He got hurt. So there is no way to say he'd have hit that HR the next day or a week after.

    And don't flatter yourself. I don't call you out. I call them out... the player and the organization. They owe us far better than we have been given.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  14. #43
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    double post

  15. #44
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Yeah, that's a great comp.
    Instead of seeing that Arroyo isnt a good hitter its obvious those 25 ABs against the padres mean something more than the other ones!

    Thats exactly what you are doing here, but instead you are using the small amount bad numbers to drag down the larger amount of good ones.

  16. #45
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    Re: BA's Untouchable Prospects

    Jay Bruce didnt hit a homer for 40 ABs at the major league level and got hurt. Its obvious his power was sapped also. Probably will never hit another one either.


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