The oly expectation I have is for the team to make the playoffs at least once every five years.Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp
Right now, we're three playoff appearances behind.
The oly expectation I have is for the team to make the playoffs at least once every five years.
Right now, we're three playoff appearances behind.
After ten years of losing, I don't know how anyone could be upset or offended if a portion of the fanbase becomes disenfranchised.
We've gone from Bowden, to O'brien, to Krivsky, and now to Jocketty, with a new owner thrown in for "good" measure.
What real changes have we seen in the process in regards to wins and losses?
The farm system is better than it was under Bowden. So what?
Until they can prove to me that it will translate to real Major League wins, consider me a cynic. Until they can prove to me that they've got the stones to move in one direction or another, consider me less than impressed.
If those expectations are "out of whack", color me guilty.
In the same vein, dare I say that I'm not so sure that a Halladay acquisition will be the magic pill.
Would his salary preclude them from adding the other peices needed to become a truly balanced ballclub (see Arroyo, Bronson or Jr., Ken Griffey)?
This organization makes me feel stupid.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
I'd trade them Volquez, but he's still on the shelf, so that won't work....
Halladay's not sufficient for a contender. That's true. But if the Reds want to be in any kind of contention discussion in the next several seasons, Roy Halladay is 100% necessary. This starting pitching is a hot mess--Arroyo's at the end of his career, Harang has seen his velocity vanish, Cueto's smallish, Volquez is hurt and currently residing in parts unknown with The Ultimate Warrior, Bailey is a punchline. Halladay takes the rotation from horrible to solidly respectable in one fell swoop.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
and if you empty the farm to get him we still can't hit.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/0...-friday-2.html
Would you offer Bailey, Alonso, Valaika and Mesoraco for Halliday, and would that be enough?Ed Price of AOL FanHouse hears that the Jays are considering trading Halladay to the Phillies for Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald and Lou Marson.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -- Albert Einstein
I agree with your premise, that's for sure.
I've just grown tired of the whole "We've acquired __, so now what? We're totally broke." bit.
I hope they do it if they feel they can afford him, absorb the talent hit on the farm, and make him part of a bigger roster plan.
Jeepers, he would look great at the top of that rotation, though.... Wow.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
I've heard the Phillies are apprehensive about trading Drabek. I can't fathom they would trade away four of their top five or six prospects in the organization in one deal. Man, I just don't see the Phillies doing that deal as being suggested.
To answer your question, Next, I would do that I think.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Same here. I'd hate to lose Alonso, but Halladay's worth it and I have my doubts about the other three kids. Still, that deal doesn't have as much prospect luster as the rumored Phillies offer. If they've really put both Drabek and Taylor on the table (which I kind of doubt), then it's game over if the Jays have any sense. They're not going to do better than that.
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
Agree totally. I can't imagine anyone besting that offer, if it's legit.
The Jays could acquire a future stud LF, a TOR starter and a catcher in one deal.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/p...ily_Halliday_u
Well, here it is, the Blue Jays asking price for Roy Halladay: Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has spoken to the Phillies within the past 24 hours and negotiations are underway in earnest, baseball sources tell the Inquirer. They want Kyle Drabek, J.A. Happ and Dominic Brown.
That's what they've asked for. It remains to be seen how the Phils will respond to that.
When Charlie Manuel said yesterday “I prefer the horse,” the horse had a name: Halladay. As the Phillies and Blue Jays negotiate, figuring out who to include or not in a potential trade, there is a buzz around the clubhouse. Phillies players have pulled me aside, asking, “Hey, off the record, are we going to get Doc? What will we have to give up?
Manuel was asked today if he’d revised the thoughts he expressed about two weeks ago re: giving up Drabek. Here’s what he said a few hours ago: "I like Drabek and the basic reason I say that is, when I look at him, the style of pitcher that he is, I look at his upside. I look at his tools. I look at the kind of pitcher he is - I call him a drop and drive pitcher - and I think he's on the order of Nolan Ryan or Tom Seaver or Colon, guys like that with a real strong core, strong legs, get a big push off the rubber to produce power. It's a style that usually makes for a long career. That's what I see."
Two weeks ago, he said clearly: “For me, it would be tough to trade Drabek.” Today, compliments about the kid, no concrete plea to keep him around.
So which is it, Charlie--do you want the horse or the pony? You probably can’t have both. And if you can, you sure can’t have J.A. Happ anymore.
My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!
It's a conundrum. The Phils don't need Halladay to win the East; they've got it pretty well wrapped up. But they will need him in the postseason.
I think the Phils will end up getting him though because this situation is going to boil down to money and the Phils can afford to extend him.
“And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith
if i were the Reds i would do that type of deal quickly. i would however try to get Rolen (and his big salary the Jays would like to move) in the deal as well. this could be a move that would make the Reds offer more appealing than others.
this move would not really be for 2009. if we could pull off a Rockie type run ala 2007 (?) that would be great but the trade would be for 2010.
imagine:
TOR Halladay
TOR Cueto
TOR Volquez
MOR Harang
BOR Arroyo
Pen: Cordero, Rhodes, Masset, Herrera, Roenicke, Fisher, Burton.
Starting 8:
Hanigan, Votto, Phillips, ?, Rolen, Bruce, Dickerson/Heisey/Stubbs, Gomes/Dorn or LH free agent
Add a halfway decent SS to this & the 2010 team is clearly a playoff team.
.
I wouldn't deal Cueto or Volquez in a deal for Hallady. The object is to fortify the rotation with them in it for the future. While I won't argue that Halladay in it, I think you'd the net gain with him would not be worht it -especially considering the afordable years you'd be giving up. While I do have concerns about EV's durability and control, he's still second in this organization as far as guys I'd be hesitant to move.
Votto would be awfully tough to give up also, but I'd still move him before I'd deal top affordable young pitching. Plus, I could find a journeyman 1B as a bridge to Alonso much easier than replacing an arm.
There are few deals I really want to move any of those thre in though and while I'd be omre agreeable to dealing Bruce, it would have to be a heck of a deal and another young OF would have to be heading our way from somewhere else.
Last edited by corkedbat; 07-24-2009 at 08:21 PM.
The only time since 1990 the Reds have given us a reason to truly enjoy a season, Bowden took a chance and acquired Greg Vaughn and Denny Neagle. Outside of Krivsky's tenure, what have we seen? Not much. I'm tired of the failed formula that we have seen the Pirates and Royals follow.
Don't trade off Dunn and Griffey and parlay the savings into Willy Tavares. If trading off legitimate major leaguers in hopes of building for the future means selling us false hope and expecting us to accept mediocre product or less, change tha pattern now. Maybe Dunn and Griffey didn't fit into the future, but show us something...and not a Willy Taveras!
At least Krivsky took action. He may have made a few mistakes, but he was obviously thinking about being proactive about improving the team.
I'm not sure what Jocketty is waiting for, but I'm frustrated with waiting. He needs to shock the baseball world and put Cincinnati back on the baseball map map by acquiring someone like Halladay. Jocketty hovered at mediocrity in St.Louis until he showed some cajonies and traded for McGwire. That trade alone didn't turn the team around, but it showed Jocketty could think beyond the lateral processes that have marked his early years in St. Louis and his time in Cincinnati.
Last edited by Spitball; 07-24-2009 at 09:05 PM.
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