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Thread: Rolen Talks Revived

  1. #181
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    I can't fathom the rationale behind a Scott Rolen bandwagon. He'll be 35 opening day of next season, and he's spent a very significant amount of time on the DL in 3 of his last 4 full MLB seasons. Meanwhile, this season is only the 2nd time in the past 5 years that he's managed an OPS over .780, so even on those rare occasions when he's healthy for a full season, production isn't guaranteed. And that's going to improve with age? Likewkise, we'll be paying $11 million for his services, which expire in 2010, despite the fact that this team has no chance in Hades of contending in 2010.

    If we had shed all our cumbersome contracts, had addressed the major outstanding needs at SP, SS, LF, had seen all of youngsters trending towards major production upswings, and had a nice haul from the farm knocking down the door... THEN it might have been the time to enjoy a 1 year rental of Rolen in a gesture of going for it. But we've accomplished NONE of the above. Rolen is a great fit for a lot of teams for the professionalism, leadership, production that he brings, but the 2009/2010 Reds would not appear to be one of them.
    I'm starting to come around on this opinion. This team literally needs improvement out of 70% of its 25 man roster. That won't be accomplished next year or in two or three years. That's a five year mission at least, be it Beane, Jocketty, Gillick, or DePodesta.

    This team is MLB's worst. Its immediate future is as bad as the Royals and the Nats.

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  3. #182
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    I was on the Scott Rolen bandwagon until I heard the price was Alonso. If Alonso is going there, I want a piece of Halladay or Scutaro or one of their top prospects. Or if it is straight up, we better be able to provide them speed off the bench in the form of Willy Taveras.

    I like the concept of Alonso as trade bait, but I always imagined him getting traded for the shortstop of the future.

  4. #183
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    A source would not deny that the Jays are talking to the Reds about a Rolen trade. That usually means something's cooking...

    http://twitter.com/MLBastian/status/2934866512

  5. #184
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    I was on the Scott Rolen bandwagon until I heard the price was Alonso. If Alonso is going there, I want a piece of Halladay or Scutaro or one of their top prospects. Or if it is straight up, we better be able to provide them speed off the bench in the form of Willy Taveras.

    I like the concept of Alonso as trade bait, but I always imagined him getting traded for the shortstop of the future.
    I don't believe for a second the price is Alonso. If it were, it would be as part of a bigger deal or would mean the Reds had something else cooking. Otherwise, I pass the Alonso thing off as nothing more than typical rumoring that happens 24 hours before the deadline.

    I've vowed to give Walt Jocketty a chance. But I cannot fathom he would ever make that deal. And if he did (does), shame on him.

    No worries for me though. I don't have the slightest belief there's truth to this 1-for-1 deal.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #185
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    A source would not deny that the Jays are talking to the Reds about a Rolen trade. That usually means something's cooking...

    http://twitter.com/MLBastian/status/2934866512
    Usually when it gets to the point of being universally admitted there's serious talks, it winds up happening.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  7. #186
    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I don't believe for a second the price is Alonso. If it were, it would be as part of a bigger deal or would mean the Reds had something else cooking. Otherwise, I pass the Alonso thing off as nothing more than typical rumoring that happens 24 hours before the deadline.

    I've vowed to give Walt Jocketty a chance. But I cannot fathom he would ever make that deal. And if he did (does), shame on him.

    No worries for me though. I don't have the slightest belief there's truth to this 1-for-1 deal.
    Let's hope you are right. I would have a hard time supporting WJ if he trades arguably our best minor league hitter for a 34 year old 3b. Again, I like Rolen, just he is not close to worth Alonso especially if the Reds have to pay Rolen $10 mil next year.

  8. #187
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'm starting to come around on this opinion. This team literally needs improvement out of 70% of its 25 man roster. That won't be accomplished next year or in two or three years. That's a five year mission at least, be it Beane, Jocketty, Gillick, or DePodesta.
    Five years? No. Two years? Maybe.

    This team is MLB's worst. Its immediate future is as bad as the Royals and the Nats.
    Hyperbole strikes again.
    Go BLUE!!!

  9. #188
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Let's hope you are right. I would have a hard time supporting WJ if he trades arguably our best minor league hitter for a 34 year old 3b. Again, I like Rolen, just he is not close to worth Alonso especially if the Reds have to pay Rolen $10 mil next year.
    I agree 100 percent. I think Rolen would be a good acquisition. And I'm not totally opposed to trading Yonder in the right deal. But these two things do not mix as positioned.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #189
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post



    Hyperbole strikes again.
    How does one replace what needs to be replaced in two years? This team is a disaster from top to bottom. As has been discussed, there are 6-7 keepable or worthy players on the 25 man.

    And even if you're really bullish on the minor leaguers, it certainly takes two or three years for most to produce at a competitive or contending level.

  11. #190
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I'm starting to come around on this opinion. This team literally needs improvement out of 70% of its 25 man roster. That won't be accomplished next year or in two or three years. That's a five year mission at least, be it Beane, Jocketty, Gillick, or DePodesta.

    This team is MLB's worst. Its immediate future is as bad as the Royals and the Nats.
    Yes. I'd say that Votto, Phillips, EdE*, Bruce*, Cueto and Volquez*, and 2-3 bullpen arms, combine to form the nucleus of a slightly below average NL team (and even many of the keys to the young core have major question marks around them, denoted by *). This is further compounded by the fact that the remaining 2/3 of the roster is mostly comprised by absolute dreck, and a few solid role players.

    So, even with optimal returns to health, and ideal progress from the farm, you're looking at the need to replace a majority of the roster, and in some cases replace them with major impact players (SP, SS, LF etc...). That's not happening on a quick timetable. Let's not make short-sighted trades, as though it were. The only thing that could change this would be the pie-in-the-sky scenario of major talent infusion via blockbuster trade, but I don't think we have the will or the fortitude for that.

  12. #191
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Yes. I'd say that Votto, Phillips, EdE*, Bruce*, Cueto and Volquez*, and 2-3 bullpen arms, combine to form the nucleus of a slightly below average NL team (and even many of the keys to the young core have major question marks around them, denoted by *). This is further compounded by the fact that the remaining 2/3 of the roster is mostly comprised by absolute dreck, and a few solid role players.

    So, even with optimal returns to health, and ideal progress from the farm, you're looking at the need to replace a majority of the roster, and in some cases replace them with major impact players (SP, SS, LF etc...). That's not happening on a quick timetable. Let's not make short-sighted trades, as though it were. The only thing that could change this would be the pie-in-the-sky scenario of major talent infusion via blockbuster trade, but I don't think we have the will or the fortitude for that.

    I'd almost certainly dump EdE from the list. He's athletic laudanum.

  13. #192
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    How does one replace what needs to be replaced in two years? This team is a disaster from top to bottom. As has been discussed, there are 6-7 keepable or worthy players on the 25 man.

    And even if you're really bullish on the minor leaguers, it certainly takes two or three years for most to produce at a competitive or contending level.
    You answered your own question.

    The Reds have a lot of perceived talent in the minor leagues. Things can turn around fast if you have a GM willing to pull the trigger.
    Go BLUE!!!

  14. #193
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Reds Talks Stalling

    Kenny Ken Ken and Pope John Paul Morosi are quoting a source describing the Scott Rolen talks between the Jays and Reds as "Going nowhere. Stuck. Impasse."

    I assume that's a word for word quote of a txt message. I wonder if the punctuation is right.
    http://www.drunkjaysfans.com/

  15. #194
    Playoffs Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Alonso for Rolen? Well, I've already done quite a bit of laughing this season so I guess I might as well laugh some more.

    I actually like Scott Rolen too. I think he's been an underrated player most of his career, and I think he's got a pretty darn good case for the Hall of Fame. But he's getting up there in age and has been missing a good chunk of time to injury, and like Stormy said, this team has far too many problems for a Scott Rolen to fix. At this point in his career, Rolen is moreso a guy to use as a finishing touch, not help the foundation.

    Then again, the Reds could have just drafted Gordon Beckham last year instead of Alonso and all of this would be a moot/already solved problem.
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  16. #195
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Rolen Talks Revived

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Let's hope you are right. I would have a hard time supporting WJ if he trades arguably our best minor league hitter for a 34 year old 3b. Again, I like Rolen, just he is not close to worth Alonso especially if the Reds have to pay Rolen $10 mil next year.
    You don't rebuild with 34 year old players with a history of not being healthy. Rolen could be useful, but not for Alonso.
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