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Thread: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

  1. #136
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Baseball didn't betray Pete, Pete betrayed baseball, the game that gave him everything.
    Except for a second chance, while at the same time giving multiple opportunities to such morally high characters as Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry and Steve Howe...but then they obviously didn't tarnish the game the way Rose did, in the eyes of baseball. In the eyes of myself however, they made a mockery of the sport which continued time and time again to allow them to prove that they had turned their lives around.

    I know some will say it's not the same thing, but trust me, at it's basest level, it really is.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

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  3. #137
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Except for a second chance, while at the same time giving multiple opportunities to such morally high characters as Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry and Steve Howe...but then they obviously didn't tarnish the game the way Rose did, in the eyes of baseball. In the eyes of myself however, they made a mockery of the sport which continued time and time again to allow them to prove that they had turned their lives around.

    I know some will say it's not the same thing, but trust me, at it's basest level, it really is.
    It's not the same thing.

    Players are lectured from day one, if they bet on baseball, they will be banned for life.

    Rose bet on baseball, and was banned for life.

  4. #138
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    It's not the same thing.

    Players are lectured from day one, if they bet on baseball, they will be banned for life.

    Rose bet on baseball, and was banned for life.
    People are lectured not to do a lot of things. They do them anyway. And we give second chances.

    I don't find that he was lectured on the subject to have any relevance. I'd expect he knew the consequences of his actions with or without the lecture. But that does not mean I feel he's any less inclined to be given a second chance than any other athlete.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #139
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    It's not the same thing.

    Players are lectured from day one, if they bet on baseball, they will be banned for life.

    Rose bet on baseball, and was banned for life.
    It's just not that black and white anymore with the current state of the game, I'm sorry, but it's not.

    http://thecabin.net/news/2009-07-28/...-still-muddled

    By David McCollum
    Log Cabin Staff Writer

    The issue has resurfaced (as if it ever really left?) about Pete Rose being reinstated to baseball.

    There’s the purist argument and the realistic argument. For the first time, it seems realism is gaining an inside track.

    Rose, the all-time hits leader in professional baseball, incurred a lifetime ban from Major League Baseball because he gambled on baseball while managing the Cincinnati Reds. That means he’s ineligible for the Baseball Hall of Fame.

    One of the oldest mandates in professional baseball is no gambling on baseball. A sign that gambling on baseball is prohibited is posted in every major and minor league clubhouse. It’s a clear, longstanding rule.

    That’s the purist argument and it has had merit for decades.

    The principle behind the rule is to keep the perception of what happens in baseball is pure — that the wins, feats and records were established by legitimate means.

    That gets more complicated in the light of recent revelations and ongoing discoveries that several of baseball’s icons and most prominent stars of the 1990s were using banned substances.

    There’s the ongoing shadow that many of the records established during the 1990s, in particular, deserve an asterisk. The records were set because many stars were breaking the rules, bending the rules and becoming icons because they were juiced.

    Every record or significant achievement that was set in the 1990s is questionable about whether it was set by legitimate means and within the boundaries of the rules concerning substances. You can’t examine such records with a sense of purity — that they were achieved without aid of some our most powerful pharmaceuticals.

    Other than a few signs in a few places, what is the difference in what Pete Rose did and what so many stars who followed him did — and might still be doing? There’s no real difference in principle.

    Babe Ruth, and many other stars of his days, indulged greatly in alcoholic beverages. The difference there is that alcohol takes away from so many of the skills necessary to play a sport. Steroids enhance those abilities. In the light of that, what Babe Ruth accomplished after so many nights on the town is extraordinary.

    The bottom line is if we continue to recognize the feats of those tainted stars of the 1990s, not ban them from baseball and keep the records in the record book (which you have to do because it’s impossible to determine completely how many were not juiced), then there’s a stronger argument for lifting the ban on Rose.

    The question is whether it’s a clean-living and morality hall of fame or one based on achievement, regardless of the personal lives and transgressions of those honored. Based on achievement, it hurts the legitimacy of the hall of fame to keep the all-time hits leader out of it, although Rose certainly has to pay any public relations consequences because of what he did. I don’t think anyone has ever questioned what Rose did on the field wasn’t legitimate. Few players in baseball history have played with such passion and gusto.

    And while folks are pondering these things, they also might reconsider the case of “Shoeless Joe” Jackson, the poster child for the Black Sox Scandal of 1919, which first put gambling on baseball in the public light. Yet, Jackson’s teammates later stated “Shoeless Joe” was not in on the fix of the World Series and played as hard to win as anyone. Many maintain he was an innocent victim of a witchhunt to preserve the image of baseball.

    To use to baseball terms as metaphors for the situations: The line in the batter’s box have been wiped out and the strike zone is obscured and inconsistent.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  6. #140
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Red Herrings swimming all over this thread.

    Speaking of steroids, should the Reds wipe out Pete Rose Jr's record? Maybe turn their back on Hal Morris... oh wait he's up for the Reds HOF!

  7. #141
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Red Herrings swimming all over this thread.

    Speaking of steroids, should the Reds wipe out Pete Rose Jr's record? Maybe turn their back on Hal Morris... oh wait he's up for the Reds HOF!
    Pete Rose Jr. has a record? I mean, aside from a prison record??? I don't think anyone would even notice if you wiped out Petey's 2 major league hits.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  8. #142
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Let's consider the allegation of ARod tipping pitches. As I read the rules, if guilty, he should be permanently ineligible, correct?

    By the way, there is a precedent for lifetime bans being lifted in baseball. Ferguson Jenkins, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, George Steinbrenner, Dickie Kerr and Ray Fisher are some examples...there may be others that I'm forgetting.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  9. #143
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Last night on Studio 42 with Bob Costas on the MLB Network, Selig said Rose's case is still under review.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  10. #144
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Let's consider the allegation of ARod tipping pitches. As I read the rules, if guilty, he should be permanently ineligible, correct?

    By the way, there is a precedent for lifetime bans being lifted in baseball. Ferguson Jenkins, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays, George Steinbrenner, Dickie Kerr and Ray Fisher are some examples...there may be others that I'm forgetting.
    How/why should ARod be banned? What rule are you referring to? Just curious...is there a rule banning stealing signs and tipping pitches?

  11. #145
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    How/why should ARod be banned? What rule are you referring to? Just curious...is there a rule banning stealing signs and tipping pitches?
    Holy crap, you're asking me about something I wrote over 3 months ago...
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  12. #146
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Last night on Studio 42 with Bob Costas on the MLB Network, Selig said Rose's case is still under review.
    Hasn't that been his answer for about ten years?

  13. #147
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Hasn't that been his answer for about ten years?
    Yeah, it has. I'm not sure what's left to review. Make a decision. Reinstate Rose to be on the ballot, and not allow him to have a field job in MLB. What's so hard about that?
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  14. #148
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Alright! About time we found Dusty's replacement!


  15. #149
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    It's not the same thing.

    Players are lectured from day one, if they bet on baseball, they will be banned for life.

    Rose bet on baseball, and was banned for life.
    And yet, as the story goes, Rose was offered a short suspension to come clean and stupidly refused. So much for a ban for life. This story really is like the swallows of Capistrano or the buzzards in Hinckley, OH - it comes back every year.
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

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  16. #150
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    Yeah, it has. I'm not sure what's left to review. Make a decision. Reinstate Rose to be on the ballot, and not allow him to have a field job in MLB. What's so hard about that?
    I don't understand why he's leaving it open. He ought to rule one way or another. If the answer is no state when he can re-apply but leaving it open makes no sense.


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