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Thread: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

  1. #106
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    and in the end we will never know if he managed the team differently because of a wager(or lack thereof) on a game. Did he let a starter go longer, use his closer on a 3rd or 4th day in a row, etc. And the real issue is that Pete created this uncertainty and the stench that comes with it.
    For what it's worth, the Rose-managed teams of the late-80's usually beat their pythag record.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  3. #107
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    For what it's worth, the Rose-managed teams of the late-80's usually beat their pythag record.
    Possibly because they won some games they ordinarily shouldn't have, and were blown out in games that might have been closer had he managed the year instead of his bets.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #108
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Who cares if he denied it? He still served his punishment regardless of how up-front he is. It makes no difference to me if someone denies something or shows fake remorse. They're all the same to me.

    I don't understand your stance. If he served his punishment then why can't he manage again?

  5. #109
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    For what it's worth, the Rose-managed teams of the late-80's usually beat their pythag record.
    I think Pete Rose was a very underrated manager. He led this team to 4 straight 2nd place finishes with very little starting pitching. Just look back at those rosters.

    His main weakness was a penchant for playing older players but he did improve in that area. For instance he played Eddie Milner way too much when he had Eric Davis on his bench. He also played himself at 1B instead of Nick Esasky. But overall I think he was one of our better managers. Think how good he could have been if he hadn't been distracted by gambling?

  6. #110
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    I think the only relevant question when it comes to Pete Rose's reinstatement is whether he has followed the main directive given to him by Bart Giamatti? Has Pete Rose reconfigured his life?

    To answer that question, you'll probably have to look to see where Pete is more likely to be today - 1) teaching the game to kids on some sandlot and attending gambler's anonymous meetings; or 2) sitting in a Vegas casino, hawking his autograph between poker hands.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  7. #111
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Possibly because they won some games they ordinarily shouldn't have, and were blown out in games that might have been closer had he managed the year instead of his bets.
    If he wasn't managing to win, or if he was pushing the team too hard and making costly mistakes, it seems like those things would show up in 1-run games, which tend to magnify bad decisions. However, Rose's Reds tended to have excellent records in 1-run games, thanks to a very strong bullpen.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  8. #112
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    My point is whitewashing Roses gambling incident with the use of steroids is a simplistic look at what he did
    I wholeheartedly agree. After all this came to light on Rose I said to myself.... "It almost makes sense (sadly). That same drive and ego that drove his competiveness on that field, and in the clubhouse, to win, win, win, and was the core of his personality and success...was also his downfall.

    He didn't think anyone could touch him.

    Jim Grey stuck the mic in Pete's face that night.
    In that particular situation, I'd have punched Grey right in the mouth and took my chances.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #113
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    I wholeheartedly agree. After all this came to light on Rose I said to myself.... "It almost makes sense (sadly). That same drive and ego that drove his competiveness on that field, and in the clubhouse, to win, win, win, and was the core of his personality and success...was also his downfall.

    He didn't think anyone could touch him.
    I agree

    Ditto for Roger Clemens where we're seeing a similar situation unfold

  10. #114
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I don't understand your stance. If he served his punishment then why can't he manage again?
    Pretty simple to figure out.

    Someone drives drunk and injures someone, we usually have them serve a sentence and when they're done, they're given back their life. But does that mean we hand them over keys to a vehicle and let them drive? Not usually.

    Someone takes advantage of a teenager because they're in position of authority, we sentence them to some sort of punishment and then they're again free to live their life. But does that mean we give them a job teaching kids of that age? Again, not typically.

    Pharmacists that have drug addictions might abuse their position. They get caught and we punish them. Does that mean we let them back to writing prescriptions? Most often not.

    This is no different.

    Pete served his time. He was punished. Now I say it's time to let him back in baseball in most capacities. But my only stipulation is that I would not let him manage. Just like any of the above scenarios, he had a vice that got him into trouble. He paid his debt to the game, much like these folks pay their debts to society, but we allow them back while trying to keep them from the temptations that got them into trouble. That's not really a strange concept.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #115
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Pete is honored plenty in the museum. He's not in the HOF, but his presence is felt in that building.

    That's enough for me.
    But it's not enough for my father or my grandmother, lifelong Reds fans who followed Rose's whole career, and many others like them. My grandmother is deeply passionate about the Reds, perhaps the most passionate person I know when it comes to this baseball team, and her desire to see Rose honored for his accomplishments as a player is what drives me on this subject. See, I kind of feel like she, and the many fans of her and my father's era, are also being punished here by perhaps having the chance to celebrate Pete Rose the baseball player while they are still alive, as well as while he is still with us.

    I would love to be able to take my grandmother down to GABP to see Rose stand on the field and have #14 retired. Sometimes, I think the thought of seeing that happen is what's keeping her going.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  12. #116
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Pretty simple to figure out.

    Someone drives drunk and injures someone, we usually have them serve a sentence and when they're done, they're given back their life. But does that mean we hand them over keys to a vehicle and let them drive? Not usually.

    Someone takes advantage of a teenager because they're in position of authority, we sentence them to some sort of punishment and then they're again free to live their life. But does that mean we give them a job teaching kids of that age? Again, not typically.

    Pharmacists that have drug addictions might abuse their position. They get caught and we punish them. Does that mean we let them back to writing prescriptions? Most often not.

    This is no different.

    Pete served his time. He was punished. Now I say it's time to let him back in baseball in most capacities. But my only stipulation is that I would not let him manage. Just like any of the above scenarios, he had a vice that got him into trouble. He paid his debt to the game, much like these folks pay their debts to society, but we allow them back while trying to keep them from the temptations that got them into trouble. That's not really a strange concept.

    You were doing pretty well 'till you got to the Pharmacist stuff. Pharmacists don't write Rx's. Substitute Doctor for Pharmacist and you've made a good point; one I agree with.

  13. #117
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Pete is honored plenty in the museum. He's not in the HOF, but his presence is felt in that building.

    That's enough for me.

    Me too. He's all over the place, as he should be.

    But none of the arguments that what he did isn't as bad as PED users hold any water to me. Totally irrelevant.

    Pete always thought he was bigger than the game, bigger than everything. He did whatever he wanted in both his personal life and his baseball career. And he was indeed larger than life.

    One of the greatest players of all time, no doubt. I loved him as a kid.

    I don't have much respect for him as a man, however, after all the things he's done off the field.

    It occurs to me that Pete has no remorse about betting on baseball. I believe he has tremendous remorse over being caught.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  14. #118
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    You were doing pretty well 'till you got to the Pharmacist stuff. Pharmacists don't write Rx's. Substitute Doctor for Pharmacist and you've made a good point; one I agree with.
    Pharmacists have been implicated in some situations where doctors have allegedly improperly prescribed medications such as Oxyocodone and Hyrdocodone.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  15. #119
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post

    It occurs to me that Pete has no remorse about betting on baseball. I believe he has tremendous remorse over being caught.
    I believe that quite a few of the steroid users have no remorse over breaking federal law and using steroids. They have tremendous remorse over being caught. In that regard I believe they do have much in common with Rose.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  16. #120
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Selig mulling pardon for Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    I believe that quite a few of the steroid users have no remorse over breaking federal law and using steroids. They have tremendous remorse over being caught. In that regard I believe they do have much in common with Rose.

    Yeah, I agree with that.

    I just don't get the connection. If betting on baseball among players and managers was as widespread as PED use, pro baseball would have been destroyed long ago.

    And I know that doesn't make ped use any more acceptable.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain


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