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Thread: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

  1. #16
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    More likely (if he was desperate to get out of Toronto and Cincinnati was the only place the Jays were willing to send him) he'd accept the trade to the Reds and then opt out of his deal at the end of the season, which I believe he's allowed to do on a multi-year contract.

    I'm with you about not thinking small, but Halladay's a bit of a futile target.
    No, I think he's allowed to request a trade at the end of the season (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If that's the case, then trade him in the offseason.

    he'd be just as miserable a lame duck in Cincy as in Toronto.
    Not necessarily. In Toronto, he would know he was part of a team that tried to trade him. He would know his team was no better than third best in the division with no hope for postseason play.

    In Cincinnati, he would have a team that wanted him and a winnable division.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    J.P. says he needs to be "wowed" in order to trade Halladay. And he hasn't been "wowed" yet. I'm thinking Roy is going to stay in Toronto.

  4. #18
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    If the Reds can't figure out how to trade for or sign TOR guys, they'll never win. I don't care how effective their minors development is. I really believe it's that black and white.

  5. #19
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    This is the quote I was referring to. The Reds aren't listed as one of the inquiring teams.

    The Blue Jays have had talks with the Boston Red Sox, Los Angeles Angels, Los Angeles Dodgers, Tampa Bay Rays, Texas Rangers and New York Yankees about Halladay, and while names have been exchanged with all teams, the Jays had not made significant progress with any team as of midday Wednesday.

    "We'd have to be wowed," Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi told ESPN's Peter Gammons. "And we haven't been wowed."

    Despite a report of renewed interest from the Yankees, they so far appeared to be just monitoring the market for Halladay. The Yankees have no interest in giving up both Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain and don't have room within the budget currently defined by team ownership.

  6. #20
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    What's so hard to understand about the fact that Halladay has a no-trade clause, sent the Blue Jays a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded to, and I'm 99% confident the Reds weren't on that list?
    People can dream, right?

  7. #21
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    If the Reds can't figure out how to trade for or sign TOR guys, they'll never win. I don't care how effective their minors development is. I really believe it's that black and white.
    I'd argue that our minors development isn't that effective, if any at all.

  8. #22
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    More likely (if he was desperate to get out of Toronto and Cincinnati was the only place the Jays were willing to send him) he'd accept the trade to the Reds and then opt out of his deal at the end of the season, which I believe he's allowed to do on a multi-year contract.
    I think this is right. IIRC, Lasorda was caught off-guard by this rule when he traded for Jeff Shaw.

  9. #23
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    If this is true, then J.P. Ricciardi is crazier than I thought.

    Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun reports that the Red Sox offered the Blue Jays six pitchers for Roy Halladay at the trading deadline. The names: Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson. That's quite an impressive array of names, and it's shocking Toronto didn't snap it up. The scout that revealed this deal said the Jays had difficulty projecting Masterson's future, and -- probably most important --- "the Jays were worried about Halladay beating them next year." Obviously, Masterson and Hagadone are no longer with the Sox club so it's unlikely a deal could be reached in the offseason. If it's going to take more than that package to land Halladay, GM J.P. Ricciardi won't find any takers.

    http://firebrandal.com/2009/09/13/ja...-halladay.html

  10. #24
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    If this is true, then J.P. Ricciardi is crazier than I thought.

    Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun reports that the Red Sox offered the Blue Jays six pitchers for Roy Halladay at the trading deadline. The names: Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson. That's quite an impressive array of names, and it's shocking Toronto didn't snap it up. The scout that revealed this deal said the Jays had difficulty projecting Masterson's future, and -- probably most important --- "the Jays were worried about Halladay beating them next year." Obviously, Masterson and Hagadone are no longer with the Sox club so it's unlikely a deal could be reached in the offseason. If it's going to take more than that package to land Halladay, GM J.P. Ricciardi won't find any takers.

    http://firebrandal.com/2009/09/13/ja...-halladay.html
    I can't fathom that's actually true, as I don't think the Red Sox would offer that much. There were reports they wouldn't even trade Bucholz in the Lee deal.

    However, you're right though, if that's true... I wouldn't know how to respond. That would be amazing they turned that down.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  11. #25
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Theo said the rumor wasn't true, but it's said that it was more of a package of 4 or so of those guys, not 6.

    So the Blue Jays were still pretty dumb not to take it.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  12. #26
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Theo said the rumor wasn't true, but it's said that it was more of a package of 4 or so of those guys, not 6.

    So the Blue Jays were still pretty dumb not to take it.
    Heh, just less dumb than previously reported.

    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #27
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    From the article:

    Bob Elliot of the Toronto Sun reports that the Red Sox offered the Blue Jays six pitchers for Roy Halladay at the trading deadline. The names: Daniel Bard, Michael Bowden, Clay Buchholz, Felix Doubront, Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson. That's quite an impressive array of names, and it's shocking Toronto didn't snap it up. The scout that revealed this deal said the Jays had difficulty projecting Masterson's future, and -- probably most important --- "the Jays were worried about Halladay beating them next year."
    The bolded part struck me as odd. A Halladay trade clearly would have signaled a retooling in Toronto. So if they weren't going to win in 2010 anyway, why would they have cared if he came back and beat them in Boston's uniform or someone else's?
    Not all who wander are lost

  14. #28
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Gammons:

    Where would they sit had the Blue Jays accepted Boston's offer of Clay Buchholz, Michael Bowden, Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone, and Josh Reddick for Roy Halladay?

    http://espn.go.com/boston/columns/bl...4&name=gammons
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  15. #29
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    I think that's too good of an offer to pass up.
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  16. #30
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    Re: Roy Halladay / Cliff Lee

    Beware the prospects of Boston and NYY. The hype is higher. Buchholz is looking legit right now, but Bowden and Reddick have had down years, Hagadone is too green and far away to project with any certainty, and Masterson may not survive as a starter. I don't blame Toronto for holding out for a more certain return.
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