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Thread: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

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    Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    gets so old seeing the Cardinals (BOB and Walt's Old team) ALWAYS do their best for their fans!!

    Cardinals After Relievers?
    By Eddie Schmid [July 29 at 7:37pm CST]

    WEDNESDAY: Strauss has more on the proceedings. He says the Cardinals are "definitely pushing" for a right-handed setup man. There's "strong internal support" to obtain Chad Qualls, but the search is "apparently directed elsewhere."

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    WEDNESDAY: Strauss has more on the proceedings. He says the Cardinals are "definitely pushing" for a right-handed setup man. There's "strong internal support" to obtain Chad Qualls, but the search is "apparently directed elsewhere."
    I'm not surprised they are looking for RH set up help.

    Firstly, have you seen Motte and Kinney pitching lately? They look like Janish out there.

    Secondly, they've traded Perez, Todd, Gregorson and Worrell already this year.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    gets so old seeing the Cardinals (BOB and Walt's Old team) ALWAYS do their best for their fans!!

    Cardinals After Relievers?
    By Eddie Schmid [July 29 at 7:37pm CST]

    WEDNESDAY: Strauss has more on the proceedings. He says the Cardinals are "definitely pushing" for a right-handed setup man. There's "strong internal support" to obtain Chad Qualls, but the search is "apparently directed elsewhere."
    When Bob Castellini said he wanted to do that a few days ago, did you see the reaction on this board because of it?

    If the Reds broke down and actually traded some prospects to make the team better for this year, it would not be well received because of how far behind in the standings they are. So in essence, it's only OK to make your team better if the fans believe it's worth it.

    We all can sit here and recount the results of the last 10 years. There's a clear history of trepidation, inadequate judgment of talent, misuse of funds and questionable personnel decisions. We get it. But I think the "must be nice" mantra is becoming a worn down cliche. Not a single deal gets linked on these boards without that very addendum attached.

    FWIW, I really believe the market is not helping the Reds at this point in time. That does not excuse anyone for past transgressions, but the market is awful as of now. Very few top prospects are being traded and for the most part, the guys being traded have more value than the guys the Reds are willing to part with. It's a buyer's market (which is strange), but yet the Reds are not in a position where they should be buying, unless it helps them beyond this season.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    It's a buyer's market (which is strange), but yet the Reds are not in a position where they should be buying, unless it helps them beyond this season.
    Respectfully, this is a load of crap. If it means breaking this nauseating cycle, you buy. You buy and buy and buy. It can help beyond this season if it helps at all.

    You do whatever it takes not to be what this team is.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Respectfully, this is a load of crap. If it means breaking this nauseating cycle, you buy. You buy and buy and buy. It can help beyond this season if it helps at all.

    You do whatever it takes not to be what this team is.
    Why break a nauseating cycle just to prove a point? If I can acquire players without giving up the organization's top talent, fine. But I don't trade future stars for rentals, just to hope I can leap frog 3-4 teams in the standings and prove to fans on Redszone.com that I'm willing to break the habits of organization's past. That's the surest way to continue to set the franchise back.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Why break a nauseating cycle just to prove a point? If I can acquire players without giving up the organization's top talent, fine. But I don't trade future stars for rentals, just to hope I can leap frog 3-4 teams in the standings and prove to fans on Redszone.com that I'm willing to break the habits of organization's past. That's the surest way to continue to set the franchise back.
    This team is simply continuing the status quo of the last decade. What on earth do you think this iteration's going to yield that is different from the ones that came before?

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    When Bob Castellini said he wanted to do that a few days ago, did you see the reaction on this board because of it?

    FWIW, I really believe the market is not helping the Reds at this point in time. That does not excuse anyone for past transgressions, but the market is awful as of now. Very few top prospects are being traded and for the most part, the guys being traded have more value than the guys the Reds are willing to part with. It's a buyer's market (which is strange), but yet the Reds are not in a position where they should be buying, unless it helps them beyond this season.
    Forget the past decade, there is an exceptionally embarrassing product being run out on the field everyday, right now. Bob Castellini's remarks are not well received, because he's largely responsible for this sham, and because he's couching his remarks in the context that he believes this team is still in contention mode. If that's just PR, he needs some new speech writers. If it's his actual perception, he needs a straight jacket.

    The worst offense in baseball, a pitching staff with an astronomical team ERA in the past month+, getting plastered by a last place team that averages 3.83 runs a game, en route to dropping 8 of our last 9. No one is upset with the threat of action taken to make the team better, they're upset that the current manifestation is a travesty, and our F.O. is taking no action while telling us that 'they're still in the hunt.' Place the blame where it belongs, not with the fan base.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Respectfully, this is a load of crap. If it means breaking this nauseating cycle, you buy. You buy and buy and buy. It can help beyond this season if it helps at all.

    You do whatever it takes not to be what this team is.
    You're a revelation these days, and I like it!

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Forget the past decade, there is an exceptionally embarrassing product being run out on the field everyday, right now. Bob Castellini's remarks are not well received, because he's largely responsible for this sham, and because he's couching his remarks in the context that he believes this team is still in contention mode. If that's just PR, he needs some new speech writers. If it's his actual perception, he needs a straight jacket.

    The worst offense in baseball, a pitching staff with an astronomical team ERA in the past month+, getting plastered by a last place team that averages 3.83 runs a game, en route to dropping 8 of our last 9. No one is upset with the threat of action taken to make the team better, they're upset that the current manifestation is a travesty, and our F.O. is taking no action while telling us that 'they're still in the hunt.' Place the blame where it belongs, not with the fan base.
    This ^^^^^ is money.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This team is simply continuing the status quo of the last decade. What on earth do you think this iteration's going to yield that is different from the ones that came before?
    I can't answer that within any certainty. If I could, or anyone could, they should be hired because clearly they would have the answers that no one in the organization has had for 10 years.

    But I know one thing: selling off young talent to acquire 2 months worth of production, on a team getting close to 10 games out of first place and trailing four different teams is not the way to break the cycle. Make a Scott Rolen trade if you can. If the Reds could make a Roy Halladay trade, do that too (since he has another year left).

    But unless any talent has a big old (C) club option for 2010 or I see more than just 1-year remaining on their contract, stay away. Stay very far away. No need to bust the farm up for the rest of this season.

    In the offseason, I would expect (hope) Jocketty does what I expect and starts making some moves to put this team in a position for next year. I do believe they're close. But I don't see much upside in making any moves the next 36 hours unless that move will also help beyond September 30.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Forget the past decade, there is an exceptionally embarrassing product being run out on the field everyday, right now. Bob Castellini's remarks are not well received, because he's largely responsible for this sham, and because he's couching his remarks in the context that he believes this team is still in contention mode. If that's just PR, he needs some new speech writers. If it's his actual perception, he needs a straight jacket.

    The worst offense in baseball, a pitching staff with an astronomical team ERA in the past month+, getting plastered by a last place team that averages 3.83 runs a game, en route to dropping 8 of our last 9. No one is upset with the threat of action taken to make the team better, they're upset that the current manifestation is a travesty, and our F.O. is taking no action while telling us that 'they're still in the hunt.' Place the blame where it belongs, not with the fan base.
    No kidding. This team is at the bottom; the organization knows it's at the bottom. They're beyond irrelevant. But for crying out loud, have the self-respect not to lie.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I can't answer that within any certainty. If I could, or anyone could, they should be hired because clearly they would have the answers that no one in the organization has had for 10 years.

    But I know one thing: selling off young talent to acquire 2 months worth of production, on a team getting close to 10 games out of first place and trailing four different teams is not the way to break the cycle. Make a Scott Rolen trade if you can. If the Reds could make a Roy Halladay trade, do that too (since he has another year left).

    But unless any talent has a big old (C) club option for 2010 or I see more than just 1-year remaining on their contract, stay away. Stay very far away. No need to bust the farm up for the rest of this season.

    In the offseason, I would expect (hope) Jocketty does what I expect and starts making some moves to put this team in a position for next year. I do believe they're close. But I don't see much upside in making any moves the next 36 hours unless that move will also help beyond September 30.
    Oh, I've heard about the farm. I've heard all about the farm. I've heard about it my whole life.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    In the offseason, I would expect (hope) Jocketty does what I expect and starts making some moves to put this team in a position for next year. I do believe they're close. But I don't see much upside in making any moves the next 36 hours unless that move will also help beyond September 30.
    I don't see how it is going to be any easier to move any of these cumbersome contracts in the offseason. I see nothing imminent, aside from the hope of Volquez's return, that makes the Reds inherently more of a contender than they were heading into 2009. So, economic recovery hopes excepted, why would Walt be any more proactive this offseason than he was last offseason?

    I don't want to mortgage a single facet of the farm for short-term players, but this many months in Walt certainly should have identified innumerable ways to make a club this full of holes, better. And yet we're still awaiting the first of those additions, and the timetable keeps getting pushed back.

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy View Post
    Forget the past decade, there is an exceptionally embarrassing product being run out on the field everyday, right now. Bob Castellini's remarks are not well received, because he's largely responsible for this sham, and because he's couching his remarks in the context that he believes this team is still in contention mode. If that's just PR, he needs some new speech writers. If it's his actual perception, he needs a straight jacket.

    The worst offense in baseball, a pitching staff with an astronomical team ERA in the past month+, getting plastered by a last place team that averages 3.83 runs a game, en route to dropping 8 of our last 9. No one is upset with the threat of action taken to make the team better, they're upset that the current manifestation is a travesty, and our F.O. is taking no action while telling us that 'they're still in the hunt.' Place the blame where it belongs, not with the fan base.
    Responsible for this sham? You must have missed the Forbes link for the Reds' team profile that showed they've raised payroll in three consecutive seasons. Small step for man, giant leap for this franchise kind.

    Perhaps they're not taking any action because they don't want to mortgage anything off in a season when they, perhaps, don't actually have the same intentions as they tell the media? I'm not sure where people get off thinking any club or franchise actually tells the media their real intentions. That's absolutely, categorically and totally false. I know this because it's my line of work. Sound bites, puff pieces and interesting Ledes are nice and all, but they're meaningless and if you're getting frustrated, in part, because of what you're being told through these methods of public relations, then you'll never be happy with the intentions of the club.

    Teams don't typically make moves in June if they have talent. They like to wait to build up the demand. I'm not sure there was much out there the Reds could have reasonably acquired to stop the bleeding. When you have players dropping like flies to injuries, what do you really expect? Few teams can withstand that kind of fortune if they were not deep to begin with.

    I really don't think, after the injuries started and the slump began, there was any magical beans that was going to cure this team. I'd much rather let Walt Jocketty do what he's going to do and re-arm for 2010. That is, in my opinion, what his plan has been to begin with. So don't bust that up. Just because people can't see his plan, does not mean it does not exist. That is not to say it does either, but it's too early to make that determination.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Responsible for this sham? You must have missed the Forbes link for the Reds' team profile that showed they've raised payroll in three consecutive seasons. Small step for man, giant leap for this franchise kind.

    Perhaps they're not taking any action because they don't want to mortgage anything off in a season when they, perhaps, don't actually have the same intentions as they tell the media? I'm not sure where people get off thinking any club or franchise actually tells the media their real intentions. That's absolutely, categorically and totally false. I know this because it's my line of work. Sound bites, puff pieces and interesting Ledes are nice and all, but they're meaningless and if you're getting frustrated, in part, because of what you're being told through these methods of public relations, then you'll never be happy with the intentions of the club.

    Teams don't typically make moves in June if they have talent. They like to wait to build up the demand. I'm not sure there was much out there the Reds could have reasonably acquired to stop the bleeding. When you have players dropping like flies to injuries, what do you really expect? Few teams can withstand that kind of fortune if they were not deep to begin with.

    I really don't think, after the injuries started and the slump began, there was any magical beans that was going to cure this team. I'd much rather let Walt Jocketty do what he's going to do and re-arm for 2010. That is, in my opinion, what his plan has been to begin with. So don't bust that up. Just because people can't see his plan, does not mean it does not exist. That is not to say it does either, but it's too early to make that determination.
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