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Thread: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

  1. #61
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    You must work for a PR firm with that kinda spin on the Reds farm.

    Alonso's probably the only guy on that list that'll do anything of significance for the big club, and currently he's without a position due to Votto playing 1B.

    Last time I checked, I'm not an eskimo, so I don't need the fridge or freezer you're tryin' to sell me.
    Blind optimism. PR work. The polarization is not necessary, is it? Can a person not have an opinion without being labeled as one extreme or another? Those that know me know I'm actually pretty cynical and grounded in expectations. I actually think highly of where the system is at now compared to the absolute train wreck it's been for many years. Call that whatever you want, though I'd prefer you simply defer to it as a difference of opinion without the attempts at hyperbole.

    Not really necessary to throw in the condescension. If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm a big boy, I can handle that. But you made the point the first time you aren't on the same page.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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  3. #62
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Blind optimism. PR work. The polarization is not necessary, is it? Can a person not have an opinion without being labeled as one extreme or another? Those that know me know I'm actually pretty cynical and grounded in expectations. I actually think highly of where the system is at now compared to the absolute train wreck it's been for many years. Call that whatever you want, though I'd prefer you simply defer to it as a difference of opinion without the attempts at hyperbole.

    Not really necessary to throw in the condescension. If you don't agree, that's fine. I'm a big boy, I can handle that. But you made the point the first time you aren't on the same page.
    My guess is people are responding to your simultaneous assertions that the farm is groovy and the 2010 is and always has been Jocketty's plan.

    Those two stances don't reconcile with each other, at least not well. The Reds can't reasonably expect much more help from the farm for 2010. Already 1/3 of the roster has come up from the farm during the past two seasons - Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, Hanigan, Cueto, Fisher, Roenicke and Herrera (you can count Janish too, though I don't see where he helps all that much). That's a lot of help if only the other 2/3 of the roster were in good shape.

    Frazier and Heisey aren't likely to take MLB by storm next season. Bailey may or may not be ready to pitch as well overall as Micah Owings (and if he isn't then his career with the Reds likely is kaput). Maloney probably would require a transition period even if he ultimately pans out. Wood and Stewart are still a bit down the road. Stubbs doesn't look like anything more than a backup option at the moment. Alonso isn't coming all that fast. Leake has yet to throw his first professional pitch.

    That doesn't mean the farm isn't doing better, but even if you expect it to be fruitful in the coming five years, 2010 profiles as a breather before the next wave arrives.

    So when you laud the farm system and insist 2010 is go time it sounds like you expect the former to deliver the latter, which looks terribly unlikely.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  4. #63
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    Re: Cardinals after a setup guy.. not done making them even better

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    My guess is people are responding to your simultaneous assertions that the farm is groovy and the 2010 is and always has been Jocketty's plan.

    Those two stances don't reconcile with each other, at least not well. The Reds can't reasonably expect much more help from the farm for 2010. Already 1/3 of the roster has come up from the farm during the past two seasons - Votto, Bruce, Dickerson, Hanigan, Cueto, Fisher, Roenicke and Herrera (you can count Janish too, though I don't see where he helps all that much). That's a lot of help if only the other 2/3 of the roster were in good shape.

    Frazier and Heisey aren't likely to take MLB by storm next season. Bailey may or may not be ready to pitch as well overall as Micah Owings (and if he isn't then his career with the Reds likely is kaput). Maloney probably would require a transition period even if he ultimately pans out. Wood and Stewart are still a bit down the road. Stubbs doesn't look like anything more than a backup option at the moment. Alonso isn't coming all that fast. Leake has yet to throw his first professional pitch.

    That doesn't mean the farm isn't doing better, but even if you expect it to be fruitful in the coming five years, 2010 profiles as a breather before the next wave arrives.

    So when you laud the farm system and insist 2010 is go time it sounds like you expect the former to deliver the latter, which looks terribly unlikely.
    I have no problem with anyone that has that stance. It's my opinion, but I don't suggest it's an infallible one. I do assert that both the Reds are aiming at 2010 and the farm system is in much better shape than it's been in a while. Anyone is correct in saying these are two stances I've taken.

    I have no issues with the dissenting opinions that do not coincide with mine. I was simply responding to the tone.

    I don't believe that whole group will be ready to contribute in 2010, but I do think the young relievers that are now up, one of the centerfielders and possibly Todd Frazier will be ready by next season. Leake has not thrown a pitch, true, but I'm very high on him. I've read in many places that he might be one of the more advanced pitchers the last few years, and accordingly is a lot more likely to contribute sooner than later.

    My hope for 2010 is not being fueled just on the farm system. But it does support my belief that there will be enough guys knocking on the door that the Reds might have some flexibility. Having that talent won't hurt if it comes down to making a trade next summer, either.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda


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